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Widely used chemical strongly linked to Parkinson’s disease

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Re: Widely used chemical strongly linked to Parkinson’s disease

#111

"After adjusting for differences in age, sex, race, and ethnicity, the scientists found veterans from Camp Lejeune had a 70% higher rate of Parkinson’s disease than the Camp Pendleton group." Why didn't they adjust for socioeconomic status? Wealthier people tend to be able to afford better medical care, live in healthier environments, eat healthier foods, etc. These could all be confounding factors, and a study like…

Scientists have heard that correlation is not causation too.

From the paper (https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/fullarticle/2...):

> To control for potential confounding, we included age, sex, race (Black, White, other), and ethnicity (Hispanic, non-Hispanic) in all models. We also tested models that included rank (officer, enlisted) and smoking status (ever, never), though smoking status was unknown for a substantial proportion of the cohort. We repeated analyses in subgroups defined by sex and by race and ethnicity. We conducted several analyses to explore possible biased ascertainment of PD in Camp Lejeune veterans due to potential awareness of the contamination and presumptive service connection that entitles them to VA benefits.

> We additionally tested associations in men and women separately and conducted sensitivity analyses that adjusted for total number of years of VHA health care usage.

These analyses were evidently deemed adequate by peer reviewers. If anyone thinks there are other confounding factors they can go ahead and do that analysis and publish as well. Sciencing continues.

Re: Widely used chemical strongly linked to Parkinson’s disease

#112
post #29

> It inhibits complex 1, the leading enzyme in a chain of reactions that convert food to energy in cellular organelles called mitochondria. So they upside is that it probably significantly reduces your risk of both cancer and type 2 diabetes, which you're >100x more likely to die from than Parkinson's. There are even longevity bloggers, like Peter Attia, who advocate that everyone should be taking mitochondrial compl…

Is there any evidence it actually reduces those risks, or is it speculation?

Go on Google Scholar and read through the research on Metformin. Metformin has a complex mechanism of action, acting is as a Mitochondrial Complex 1 inhibitor in some cases but not others. But the consensus seems to be that it reduces cancer risk by about 30%, relating to its capacity as a Mitochondrial Complex 1 inhibitor.

Also, if watch Jerry McLaughlin's YouTube talks about pawpaws and cancer, he summarizes the research that mainly focuses on the mechanisms of action of annonaceous acetogenins in fighting cancer -- these are also Mitochondrial Complex 1 inhbitors, similar to Metformin but much stronger.

Basically these chemicals cause a buildup of radical oxides in your mitochondria, which reduce their efficiency. If your mitochondria have too many radical oxides, or have them for two long, then your mitochondria will die. And if enough mitochondria in any given cell die, their host cells will also obviously die. This is what causes progressive supranuclear palsy, which is what this article is probably (incorrectly) referring to as Parkinson's.

But because the metabolic needs of cancer cells are higher than the metabolic needs of non-cancer cells, there may be a certain dose of these chemicals that is high enough to inhibit cancer but low enough that it doesn't cause palsy. Further, the way that cancer cells often develop resistance to chemotherapy drugs is by using ATP to pump out the drugs once they have entered the cells. These mitochondrial complex 1 inhibitors can prevent these protein pumps from working by making the mitochondria less efficient, and therefor effectively prevent cancer cells from developing certain types of resistance to chemotherapy drugs.

Basically if you go through Google Scholar and read the research on pawpaws, rotenone, graviola, and Metformin, it's all more or less the same stuff. John Clifton's book Your Fourth Choice is also a fun book you can get on Amazon and read in an hour or two. It does a good job summarizing the academic research on annonaceous acetogenins. (I bought it because I collect books on North American Pawpaws, not because I was in the market for an experimental cancer treatment.)

Re: Widely used chemical strongly linked to Parkinson’s disease

#113

>"But in the 20th century, TCE was used for many purposes, including making decaffeinated coffee" ... This is exactly the reason I never touched decaf coffee until I found Swiss water process (SWP) decaf. It never made sense to me to use hydrocarbon solvents in a food application

I'm very curious about SWP. How does it taste compared to good light roasted single origins?

Re: Widely used chemical strongly linked to Parkinson’s disease

#114

Widely used chemical *(that was generally phased out in the 70s) linked to Parkinson's. Still important, but you don't need to start searching product labels in 2023 for it.

> that was generally phased out in the 70s Untrue.

I too was skeptical of the original post without any references. However, your post also did not provide references.

Wiki isn't great, but here is what I found: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichloroethylene

   Fetal toxicity and concerns for carcinogenic potential of TCE led to its abandonment in developed countries by the 1980s.

    The use of trichloroethylene in the food and pharmaceutical industries has been banned in much of the world since the 1970s due to concerns about its toxicity.
However, I can still find some pages about "TCE Vapor Degreasing", so it is still in use today: https://www.epa.gov/assessing-and-managing-chemicals-under-t...

The saddest one I found: https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/s...

    Historically, TCE was used as a surgical anesthetic and inhaled analgesic. The Food and Drug Administration banned such use in the United States in 1977.
Woah.

Re: Widely used chemical strongly linked to Parkinson’s disease

#115

Widely used chemical *(that was generally phased out in the 70s) linked to Parkinson's. Still important, but you don't need to start searching product labels in 2023 for it.

I wonder what chemicals from today we are going to declare toxic in next 20 years

You can look into how many studies are done in currently used chemicals, spoiler is about 10%, when the chemical is declared unsafe like biphenol, they come up with a a non studied version. Ie: biphenol b and so the games goes

Re: Widely used chemical strongly linked to Parkinson’s disease

#116
post #32
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is Tricholoroethylene? "A widely used chemical" ....

"Widely used chemical Tricholoroethylene strongly linked to Parkinson"

Upvote here. Good suggestion. This would be more accurate and less click bait-y.

Re: Widely used chemical strongly linked to Parkinson’s disease

#117

Widely used chemical *(that was generally phased out in the 70s) linked to Parkinson's. Still important, but you don't need to start searching product labels in 2023 for it.

«However, it’s detectable in many foods, in up to one-third of U.S. drinking water»

Re: Widely used chemical strongly linked to Parkinson’s disease

#118
post #62
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never exchange the "devil you know", especially if it's natural and has been used for centuries by billions, for some novel lab-made crap, proprietary owned, and marketed to death. Not to mention when getting it has been the whole point of drinking coffee in the first place.

This is a rather explicit use of the Naturalistic Fallacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy

I don’t think GP is making a moral argument. It seems more they are arguing that novel techniques lead to novel consequences, which could be harmful. GP assesses the potential risks outweigh the benefits of a new process when a process with known consequences exists.

If their argument is not about morality but instead about risk avoidance, would it still be fallacious reasoning? They could even still be wrong (because they incorrectly calculated the risks) without suffering a fallacy, right?

I am genuinely asking. I don’t know the answer.

Re: Widely used chemical strongly linked to Parkinson’s disease

#119
post #49
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is Tricholoroethylene? "A widely used chemical" ....

Imagine this headline A widely known basketball team wins NBA finals Clickbait?

Not to ruffle any feathers, but I notice this trend on HN also. People will post something the city they live in and drop all kinds of hints... except the name. Same for employers. Strange. It's like we need to play the old boardgame "Guess Who?"!

Re: Widely used chemical strongly linked to Parkinson’s disease

#120
post #3

When you drink your coffee without caffeine in your 30 for escaping a harm from caffeine, but end up with Parkinson in your 60+.

It's worth noting that almost all decaffeinated coffee is made using water as the solvent. Even 30 years ago this was true.

So what decaf isn’t ?
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