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The Miracle of Pakistani Tekken (2022) [video]

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Re: The Miracle of Pakistani Tekken (2022) [video]

#31

Post by Jach »

alentred wrote: post #17

I am not into competitive gaming at all, but enjoyed this tremendously. Many possible reasons of the success are mentioned, but the one that caught my attention is how the arcades are getting paid: gamers only pay for the number of games lost , so gamers have a major incentive in getting better and winning, and everyone progresses since they compete with each other. Sounds brilliant on one hand, but I also wonder how…

If the per-coin fee isn't too bad, the excitement of gaming with people in person, who can quickly become friends if not already so, can outweigh losing a lot. And it does capture the arcade experience even more. I played a bit on some cabinets when visiting Japan recently, if you play on the "cabinet network" (not always someone next to you) at least it's a 100 yen coin fee and you go either until you lose or you win 3 matches in a row.

I think 100 yen is a bit steep (US 75 cents at the moment) but I had some fun matches even though I'm used to using a controller. (Some non-Tekken fighting game cabinets actually had a controller attached, or a USB hookup to bring your own.) I spent more doing that than I have on my actual PC copy... not that hard though since it routinely goes on sale for $5 for the base game / $13 or so for the definitive version with all the DLC characters.

Re: The Miracle of Pakistani Tekken (2022) [video]

#32

Post by Jach »

streakfix wrote: post #22
quanto wrote: post #6

I was a (semi-)competitive player two decades ago (Tekken 2, 3, TT) during the golden age of Tekken; for the uninitiated, the challenges are multiple layers: 1. The vocabulary of the game: there are two dozen or so characters, each with dozens of moves. Each move comes with its own attributes (e.g. hit points, latency). If you are anywhere near competitive, you need to memorize all of the moves and attributes, in the…

That's like the exact opposite of rocket league. There's an ex rocket league pro who made a video series about climbing to the top of the rank ladder while using the bare minimum mechanics, letting his mind games carry him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhoplG8Cm_A&list=PLaVDH5Sevb...

I love the analysis quanto gave though in reality it may not be so predetermined. Some very skilled players are essentially character specialists, and while Arslan has mastered multiple characters, at least during the last Evo Japan even he stayed with one the entire time rather than strategically switch up. (But what do I know, I'm relatively new to the game and currently just an orange rank scrub slowing working up. 44274498 on steam for the off chance any HNers want to fight sometime.)

Re: The Miracle of Pakistani Tekken (2022) [video]

#33

Post by yodsanklai »

Neophyte question: why Tekken? it's a very old arcade game. Are there similar scenes for other games from that era (e.g. street fighter 2) or does Tekken have a special place? also, are these vintage guys interested in modern gaming as well or is it a totally different world?

Re: The Miracle of Pakistani Tekken (2022) [video]

#34

Post by wingerlang »

yodsanklai wrote: post #33

Neophyte question: why Tekken? it's a very old arcade game. Are there similar scenes for other games from that era (e.g. street fighter 2) or does Tekken have a special place? also, are these vintage guys interested in modern gaming as well or is it a totally different world?

Tekken might be an old arcade game but Tekken 7 was released in 2015, and Tekken 8 is an upcoming title.

Super Smash Bros Melee (2001) is one example of a game still having a big (?) scene.

Re: The Miracle of Pakistani Tekken (2022) [video]

#35

Post by boomboomsubban »

yodsanklai wrote: post #33

Neophyte question: why Tekken? it's a very old arcade game. Are there similar scenes for other games from that era (e.g. street fighter 2) or does Tekken have a special place? also, are these vintage guys interested in modern gaming as well or is it a totally different world?

It's modern versions of Tekken. That said, there still are smaller tournaments for the Street Fighter II variants, probably Tekken too.

Re: The Miracle of Pakistani Tekken (2022) [video]

#36

Post by mannykannot »

distantaidenn wrote: post #16
dclowd9901 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it works both ways though doesn’t it? The isolationist nature of Pakistan also means outside players have a hard time playing _them_ as well, and thus, something of a blind spot in their own skill set. Granting your point that having more exposure is better than less, maybe the Pakistani players have just developed some really keen play styles that work really well against the unadapted.

This is exactly what it was. As more people have began to adapt to the Pakistan meta, they are not as dominant. It was just a new skilled style that no one outside of Pakistan was aware of. You see similar things with Black players in the US. They are often isolated and hyper-competitive, and thus are over represented in the top tier based on population numbers. Edit: Interesting. Why was this downvoted? Any competit…

I cannot speak for anyone who downvoted you, but your second paragraph recapitulates the sort of 'just-so' stories made up to explain away the successes of black people in athletics and more generally, and similarly for people of the 'wrong' gender, nationality or social class (when the future Kaiser Wilhelm II started winning yacht races at the prestigious Cowes Week regatta in Britain, he was dismissed by some as "trying too hard.")

The frequency with which this sort of thing has happened suggests that, for some people, anything is preferable to the simple acceptance of the superior abilities of the people in question.

The fact you state in your final paragraph is consistent with a number of hypotheses, including simple chance.

Re: The Miracle of Pakistani Tekken (2022) [video]

#37

Post by blululu »

mannykannot wrote: post #36
distantaidenn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what it was. As more people have began to adapt to the Pakistan meta, they are not as dominant. It was just a new skilled style that no one outside of Pakistan was aware of. You see similar things with Black players in the US. They are often isolated and hyper-competitive, and thus are over represented in the top tier based on population numbers. Edit: Interesting. Why was this downvoted? Any competit…

I cannot speak for anyone who downvoted you, but your second paragraph recapitulates the sort of 'just-so' stories made up to explain away the successes of black people in athletics and more generally, and similarly for people of the 'wrong' gender, nationality or social class (when the future Kaiser Wilhelm II started winning yacht races at the prestigious Cowes Week regatta in Britain, he was dismissed by some as "…

>>The frequency with which this sort of thing has happened suggests that, for some people, anything is preferable to the simple acceptance of the superior abilities of the people in question.

American society has made a huge effort over the last 70 years insisting that deep down we are all the same and no group is inherently superior to any other. So when we see some group doing better than another group we need to explain it away as being due to some cultural phenomenon. Suggesting that a specific group of people does in fact have superior abilities is a very ugly thing.

Re: The Miracle of Pakistani Tekken (2022) [video]

#38

Post by mannykannot »

blululu wrote: post #37
mannykannot wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot speak for anyone who downvoted you, but your second paragraph recapitulates the sort of 'just-so' stories made up to explain away the successes of black people in athletics and more generally, and similarly for people of the 'wrong' gender, nationality or social class (when the future Kaiser Wilhelm II started winning yacht races at the prestigious Cowes Week regatta in Britain, he was dismissed by some as "…

>>The frequency with which this sort of thing has happened suggests that, for some people, anything is preferable to the simple acceptance of the superior abilities of the people in question. American society has made a huge effort over the last 70 years insisting that deep down we are all the same and no group is inherently superior to any other. So when we see some group doing better than another group we need to e…

The idea that "American society" speaks with one voice on this now, let alone consistently over 70 years, is preposterous.

Re: The Miracle of Pakistani Tekken (2022) [video]

#39

Post by snarfy »

bane wrote: post #3

Wow this was really interesting. As a semi-competitive player during the Tekken 3/TTT1 days one of the under appreciated parts of getting good at an international level is diversity of arcade "cultures". What this means is that your arcade generally provides the same players again and again, and performing well against those players provides little guarantee against players in another arcade who've developed entirely…

I made it to the round of 8 in Namco's TTT1 world tournament. This is all absolutely true - you must travel and play against the best to improve further once you reach a peak. And you have to play a ridiculous amount to keep your skills up. I recall playing with friends starting friday night after work at 5pm and not stopping until late Sunday afternoon, nearly 48 hours straight with no sleep! Dedication...

Seeing Arslan win EVO was such a great underdog story. His play style was different than most - not the most flash but incredibly strong fundamentals. He could have done well with any character.

Re: The Miracle of Pakistani Tekken (2022) [video]

#40

Post by whynotqat »

A similar story took place with checkers in the mid 20th century. People discovered that Senegalese players, who played a similar but not identical game, had transferable skills and knowledge that allowed them to instantly compete with top professionals. One of them eventually won (or tied for) the World Championship: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baba_Sy
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