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Off-grid solar brings light, time and income to remotest villages

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Re: Off-grid solar brings light, time and income to remotest villages

#51

Post by euroderf »

twelvechairs wrote: post #32
rippercushions wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is particularly sad since Indonesia is volcanically very active and has tons of potential for geothermal power. Many of its islands are also quite dry, which couples with the equatorial location makes them great for year-round solar.

Nearly 60% of indonesias population and most of its industry are on Java, the most densely populated island in the world. 150m+ people on a place the size of Pennsylvania or Mississippi. Its absolutely not easy to find space for solar at scale in such a space constrained environment it would really require some massive infrastructure to a solar farm in the sea or another island. Singapore is a good comparison - a muc…

It sounds like there's going to be an ideal density where there is room for solar (not blocked by neighbors) and for trees, yet still with walk-to-able neighborhood services.

Re: Off-grid solar brings light, time and income to remotest villages

#52

Post by ricardobayes »

This is great but also I hope the non-profits have aftersale support for the panels. Considering their "copay" is $3.5 over 3 years it's unlikely the villagers would be able to replace a faulty panel. I hope this is not the case of "giving someone a fish", instead of teaching them how to fish.

Re: Off-grid solar brings light, time and income to remotest villages

#54

Post by DoreenMichele »

rippercushions wrote: post #21
photochemsyn wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The unstated statistic in this article is that Indonesia's reliance on coal has grown from 20% of national energy production to 40% of energy production over the 2005-2020 period, which accounts for most of that 85% to 97% growth factor. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/indonesia-clings-coa... The slow growth of renewables particularly in remote locations is certainly a good thing, but the actual nation-wide p…

This is particularly sad since Indonesia is volcanically very active and has tons of potential for geothermal power. Many of its islands are also quite dry, which couples with the equatorial location makes them great for year-round solar.

With 2,356 MW of installed capacity as of year-end 2022, this puts Indonesia in second place in the world after the United States in utilizing geothermal power,

By 2025, Indonesia aims to produce more than 9,000 MW of geothermal power, becoming the world's leading geothermal energy producer. This would account for 5% of Indonesia's total energy needs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_power_in_Indonesi...

Re: Off-grid solar brings light, time and income to remotest villages

#55

Post by pif »

photochemsyn wrote: post #14
DoreenMichele wrote: post #5

Indonesia has brought electricity to millions of people in recent years, going from 85% to nearly 97% coverage between 2005 and 2020, according to World Bank data. But there are still more than half a million people in Indonesia living in places the grid doesn’t reach. While barriers still remain, experts say off-grid solar programs on the island could be replicated across the vast archipelago nation, bringing renewa…

The unstated statistic in this article is that Indonesia's reliance on coal has grown from 20% of national energy production to 40% of energy production over the 2005-2020 period, which accounts for most of that 85% to 97% growth factor. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/indonesia-clings-coa... The slow growth of renewables particularly in remote locations is certainly a good thing, but the actual nation-wide p…

So what? Ecology is secondary to life quality.

Re: Off-grid solar brings light, time and income to remotest villages

#56

Post by Scoundreller »

cperciva wrote: post #38
Scoundreller wrote: post #37

> Children sometimes studied by makeshift oil lamps, but these occasionally burned down homes when knocked over by the wind. So a big issue with these is that kerosene has a flash point of 37C to 62C. So at the lower end of the scale, they’re basically like gasoline and capable of lighting up all at once at barely above room temperature (and the burning flame will likely warm it up a bit). Meanwhile diesel is 52C to…

Doesn't kerosene burn more cleanly than diesel though? You might save lives from fires but lose them from poor air quality.

Yes, just pointing out the increased danger from kerosene because not a lot of people know the differences between kerosene and diesel (which can often be substituted)

Re: Off-grid solar brings light, time and income to remotest villages

#57

Post by pyrale »

epistasis wrote: post #28
gpm wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not convinced that this is a case of leapfrogging. Off grid solar+storage is great when you and everyone around you is using very little electricity. It lets you go from "nothing" to "lightbulb at night" very cheaply, which is a huge improvement. Once you're using tons of electricity, list a 1st world home does (refrigeration/ac/microwaves/electric ovens/electric stoves/washing machines/vehicles/...), storage wou…

That sort of lifestyle is really feasible on solar. Rooftops alone are likely enough, or at worst some bit of agrovoltaics. The vast majority of Western energy is wasted, rejected as waste heat. Solar electrification skips over a wasteful thermodynamic conversion of heat to electricity. Even the rare case where fossil fuels seem at first glance as efficient, such as for heating water and homes, it turns out that 99%…

You kind of completely skipped your fellow commenter's point, which was not about production method, but about the benefits of a grid when you have important storage needs.

Re: Off-grid solar brings light, time and income to remotest villages

#58

Post by pyrale »

deepmauka wrote: post #40
gpm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That sort of lifestyle As I said in another comment, once people can afford a better lifestyle, they aren't remotely likely to choose to keep living the worse one. On the other hand, I too am a fan of solar and electricity. I completely buy the solar + storage + grid is sufficient for a western lifestyle. I'm not arguing against solar, I'm arguing against lack of grid, that connecting houses, towns, and cities toge…

My home in the wet tropics is solar powered. A small array of eight 325w panels supports 3 people, a regular AC refrigerator, electric kettle, electric hotplate, washer/dryer, and continuously running ceilings fans for moisture. In periods of cloud cover we still generate some power, we just switch to propane cooking and being frugal with our power budget. Solar is a no brainer in the tropics.

What is your storage setup?

Re: Off-grid solar brings light, time and income to remotest villages

#59

Post by datadeft »

epistasis wrote: post #2

For years (decade? decades?) this has been the promise of distributed solar and storage, and been analogized to how developing countries leapfrogged to wireless telecom without the expensive wired last-mile telecom stage. The grid is very valuable, but it's also very expensive, and as storage and solar get really cheap, while grid costs stay stagnant, we may arrive at a future for which decentralized, disconnected mi…

This sounds nice but in reality you need sophisticated grid controlling measures to have a fixed frequency for many things. This is doable just good to be aware of it.
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