Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Rising number of lithium battery incidents on airplanes worry crew

cbsnews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 101 posts

Re: Rising number of lithium battery incidents on airplanes worry crew

#31

Post by rsync »

I'm surprised that after all of these years commercial airliners don't have jettison tubes/boxes/compartments ...

A one-way, pressure (and possibly mechanical) airlock (or sphincter ?) that you can force a small item out of. This feature would have been useful even prior to mobile phones and batteries. It is my understanding that jet liners dump fuel anytime it is expedient to[1] so this is hardly the worst outcome in terms of pollution and has, essentially, zero cost over a body of water.

Related:

I am unsure whether a jet liner can descend to a breathable altitude (say, 10000 feet) and feed "fresh", or ambient, air into the plane. That seems like a nice redundancy to have and I wonder how realistic it would be to implement ...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_dumping

Re: Rising number of lithium battery incidents on airplanes worry crew

#32

Post by ncann »

WheatMillington wrote: post #16
miramba wrote: post #6

Sounds disturbing, but when I think about the thousands of flights, 100000s of passengers, almost all with at least 1 LiIon device…a lot more incidents should have happened at this point. Semi-related story: I started a flight from a not-1st world country to another not-1st in the times when all cell phones had to be switched off. When we approached landing, the cellphones got contact and started buzzing and ringing…

What is your proposition here? That these incidents aren't actually occurring as reported, or that in air fires just aren't a big deal? Eventually such a fire will end in a disaster, we're really just playing with probability. In aviation a lot of investment is made in mitigating much less likely problems, but we seem to be happy to accept the proliferation of potentially dangerous devices I'm not saying it's right o…

Obligatory XKCD https://xkcd.com/651/

Re: Rising number of lithium battery incidents on airplanes worry crew

#33

Post by jjtheblunt »

crazygringo wrote: post #29
dinkblam wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Surely it's worth the expense. you'd think the same about parachutes for everyone which could have rescued lives on some of the plane disasters.

Parachutes would barely save any lives. First, commercial air travel is incredibly safe. Second, parachuting requires extensive training which a negligible number of passengers have. It's not like you just jump out of a plane and it works automatically. Not to mention dealing with cold, oxygen deprivation, landing in the middle of the ocean, etc. Third, it's going to take at least a half hour for everyone to put para…

You just invented https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirrus_Airframe_Parachute_Syst... even though i don't know how that would work on a commercial sized plane.

Re: Rising number of lithium battery incidents on airplanes worry crew

#34

Post by genocidicbunny »

photoGrant wrote: post #4

I've wondered how long it will take for them to put an emergency fireproof bag behind/under every seat. Surely it's worth the expense. Maybe they'll do something when it one day costs more in bad PR.

The last few times I've flown, I've noticed that with the other 'emergency' gear that the crew has stowed away in one of the overhead bins, they now have a fireproof bag in there too. So it's not quite at every seat, but they do seem to carry some on board.

That does very little for situations where checked-in baggage has a lithium ion battery that ignites. They tell you to remove things like laptops and portable batteries from your checked in luggage, but I haven't heard disposable vapes mentioned, and those very often have lithium ion batteries too.

Re: Rising number of lithium battery incidents on airplanes worry crew

#35

Post by ziml77 »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #21
VygmraMGVl wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're in an enclosed tube with lots of people, so fire is a lot worse. Most lithium ion battery fires in cabins are from loose vape batteries, probably shorting on keys or change. Some are from crushing pouch cells in tablets or phones, sometimes by seats. Besides that, there isn't anything about planes that is causing these fires.

I would imagine that the proliferation of cheap devices using lithium batteries also contributes to the issue somewhat. While anything with a lithium-ion battery is susceptible (as seen with the exploding Samsung Note debacle), bargain bin electronics are almost certainly not selecting batteries to as high of a standard as something with better profit margins, like an ultrabook or flagship phone. Cheap chargers also…

There really need to be rules in place to prevent these ticking time bombs that are cheap devices with 0 safety considerations or QA from being brought onto planes.

Re: Rising number of lithium battery incidents on airplanes worry crew

#36

Post by ____jes »

photoGrant wrote: post #4

I've wondered how long it will take for them to put an emergency fireproof bag behind/under every seat. Surely it's worth the expense. Maybe they'll do something when it one day costs more in bad PR.

While they’re not under every seat, battery fire containment bags are already included in airlines’ onboard emergency equipment, for flight attendants to use when needed.

https://avsax.com/news/what-to-do-if-a-lithium-battery-catch...

Re: Rising number of lithium battery incidents on airplanes worry crew

#37

Post by jstarfish »

ajb wrote: post #24

My house is old enough to have (currently redundant) fireplaces. Reading stories like this, I wonder if it would be worth converting them into flameproof storage for battery powered devices.

Probably not.

You'd have to leave the flue open (there goes heating/cooling) and regularly pay to clean it to make sure nothing nested inside or it won't vent. They don't smother either, so airtight boxes are out too.

Focus on fire suppression/escape strategy. The one that burns your house down is going to be some freebie gadget someone else lost in your couch, that you didn't know about to account for.

Re: Rising number of lithium battery incidents on airplanes worry crew

#38

Post by Animats »

The Boeing 787 had problems with the aircraft's own lithium batteries going into thermal runaway and catching fire.[1] Fortunately, on the ground at an airport. When it happened a second time, all 787s were grounded for months.

I suspect that once there's a better battery technology, maybe lighter lithium-iron-phosphate or a noncombustible solid battery, the current lithium ion technology will be prohibited on aircraft.

[1] https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/boeing-787-dreamliner...

Re: Rising number of lithium battery incidents on airplanes worry crew

#39

Post by reisse »

rsync wrote: post #31

I'm surprised that after all of these years commercial airliners don't have jettison tubes/boxes/compartments ... A one-way, pressure (and possibly mechanical) airlock (or sphincter ?) that you can force a small item out of. This feature would have been useful even prior to mobile phones and batteries. It is my understanding that jet liners dump fuel anytime it is expedient to[1] so this is hardly the worst outcome i…

Jet liners do not need to descend to feed ambient air into the plane. Cabin pressurization is done by feeding compressed air from the engine to air conditioner and then to cabin. So in theory yes, this is possible.

However in case of fire, actively feeding fresh air may make things worse by providing more oxygen to burn.

Re: Rising number of lithium battery incidents on airplanes worry crew

#40

Post by DerekL »

rsync wrote: post #31

I'm surprised that after all of these years commercial airliners don't have jettison tubes/boxes/compartments ... A one-way, pressure (and possibly mechanical) airlock (or sphincter ?) that you can force a small item out of. This feature would have been useful even prior to mobile phones and batteries. It is my understanding that jet liners dump fuel anytime it is expedient to[1] so this is hardly the worst outcome i…

Airliners are always cycling in fresh air, no matter the altitude.
Post reply on HN