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Rising number of lithium battery incidents on airplanes worry crew

cbsnews.com

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Re: Rising number of lithium battery incidents on airplanes worry crew

#21

Post by kitsunesoba »

VygmraMGVl wrote: post #3
zamadatix wrote: post #2

The article made it click for me why they seem to care so much about you damaging your electronics lost in the seats. Is there something about air travel that makes these batteries go or is it just a relatively uncommon thing that creates a common problem given the number of flights?

You're in an enclosed tube with lots of people, so fire is a lot worse. Most lithium ion battery fires in cabins are from loose vape batteries, probably shorting on keys or change. Some are from crushing pouch cells in tablets or phones, sometimes by seats. Besides that, there isn't anything about planes that is causing these fires.

I would imagine that the proliferation of cheap devices using lithium batteries also contributes to the issue somewhat. While anything with a lithium-ion battery is susceptible (as seen with the exploding Samsung Note debacle), bargain bin electronics are almost certainly not selecting batteries to as high of a standard as something with better profit margins, like an ultrabook or flagship phone.

Cheap chargers also likely contribute. There's limits to how much charger misbehavior even the best batteries can tolerate and some of the charger bricks sold on Amazon, in gas stations, etc are horrifyingly bad.

Re: Rising number of lithium battery incidents on airplanes worry crew

#22

Post by IndySun »

xwdv wrote: post #12

If a huge fire breaks out on a plain mid flight, you realistically have no chance of survival right? So instead of trying to survive only to get burned to death you should inhale as much fumes as possible to pass out and die quickly before you are burned?

If your comment was aimed on a 'Black Mirror' irony level, you need to hone your delivery. Be pithier.

Re: Rising number of lithium battery incidents on airplanes worry crew

#23

Post by akiselev »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #9
akiselev wrote: post #7

> A CBS News Investigation has discovered similar incidents have been happening much more frequently in the skies over the United States. The FAA verifies the number of lithium-Ion battery fires jumped more 42% [sic] in the last five years. I just checked several estimates of iPhone/iPad sales and number of Android users using a cursory Google search. Guess what? The increase in the number of fires correlates with gr…

> Guess what? The increase in the number of fires correlates with growth in the number of electronic devices sold. That would be odd. Surely a huge number of the devices sold replace prior devices. More interesting would be the number of phones on planes and I would assume that this is mostly flat at this point.

According to [1] the growth in smart phone market penetration was closer to 15-20% than 40% but definitely non-negligible over that time period. I assume smartphones are significantly likelier to have a battery accident than dumb cellphones due to the higher power requirements. On the other hand, iPads are definitely not that wide spread - that number is also far more strongly correlated.

I'll admit I should have been more precise - I actually checked stats for several other types of devices. Given all the new wireless headphones like Airpods, all the growth in vape usage (especially cannabis vapes, which became legal and a TSA nothingburger in many states around that time), and so on, I think the burden of proof is on showing that the increase in fire exceeds the growth in number of devices. Based on personal experience, most vapes are very easy to overheat because the on button sticks out on many devices and it's the kind of thing a smoker would have in carry on.

Edit: Just realized I got a separate smart phone for work in that time period.

[1] https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/fact-sheet/mobile/

Re: Rising number of lithium battery incidents on airplanes worry crew

#26

Post by miles »

hospitalhusband wrote: post #17

Some folks in front of me had a mifi hotspot light on fire at the airport while in line to board. I saw the smoke and thought they were trying to get one last vape in, and told them it was bold of them. They said they didn't vape, after which I said their backpack was smoking. Gate lady made them throw it in the (blastproof, I guess) trash can. They eventually got to board but had to toss the backpack. That said they…

> allegiant still wanted to charge us for water.

I'd be surprised if they didn't have to charge for water with flights from Memphis to Vegas for $38[0] and Cincinnati to Fort Myers for $44[1].

[0] https://www.allegiantair.com/low-cost-las-vegas-flights

[1] https://www.allegiantair.com/deals

Re: Rising number of lithium battery incidents on airplanes worry crew

#27

Post by ben0x539 »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #9
akiselev wrote: post #7

> A CBS News Investigation has discovered similar incidents have been happening much more frequently in the skies over the United States. The FAA verifies the number of lithium-Ion battery fires jumped more 42% [sic] in the last five years. I just checked several estimates of iPhone/iPad sales and number of Android users using a cursory Google search. Guess what? The increase in the number of fires correlates with gr…

> Guess what? The increase in the number of fires correlates with growth in the number of electronic devices sold. That would be odd. Surely a huge number of the devices sold replace prior devices. More interesting would be the number of phones on planes and I would assume that this is mostly flat at this point.

Maybe you have the causation the wrong way around--about every time there is a lithium battery fire on a plane, someone has to buy a new phone, after all.

Re: Rising number of lithium battery incidents on airplanes worry crew

#28

Post by Zetobal »

sgtnoodle wrote: post #19
Zetobal wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can dump the burning phone into them. The gasses are probably worse than the initial fire.

A burning battery spewing out gases is going to quickly pressurize any sort of bag, isn't it?

They work really well just look at the bags for racing drone batteries on YouTube.

Re: Rising number of lithium battery incidents on airplanes worry crew

#29

Post by crazygringo »

dinkblam wrote: post #11
photoGrant wrote: post #4

I've wondered how long it will take for them to put an emergency fireproof bag behind/under every seat. Surely it's worth the expense. Maybe they'll do something when it one day costs more in bad PR.

> Surely it's worth the expense. you'd think the same about parachutes for everyone which could have rescued lives on some of the plane disasters.

Parachutes would barely save any lives.

First, commercial air travel is incredibly safe.

Second, parachuting requires extensive training which a negligible number of passengers have. It's not like you just jump out of a plane and it works automatically. Not to mention dealing with cold, oxygen deprivation, landing in the middle of the ocean, etc.

Third, it's going to take at least a half hour for everyone to put parachutes on and jump out in an orderly fashion. How many aviation accidents have had a half hour of extra time where they already knew they would fatally crash?

Re: Rising number of lithium battery incidents on airplanes worry crew

#30

Post by Throw73849 »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #21
VygmraMGVl wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're in an enclosed tube with lots of people, so fire is a lot worse. Most lithium ion battery fires in cabins are from loose vape batteries, probably shorting on keys or change. Some are from crushing pouch cells in tablets or phones, sometimes by seats. Besides that, there isn't anything about planes that is causing these fires.

I would imagine that the proliferation of cheap devices using lithium batteries also contributes to the issue somewhat. While anything with a lithium-ion battery is susceptible (as seen with the exploding Samsung Note debacle), bargain bin electronics are almost certainly not selecting batteries to as high of a standard as something with better profit margins, like an ultrabook or flagship phone. Cheap chargers also…

Yes, cheap devices are real problem. China has strict rules for transporting batteries that are actually enforced.
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