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All the arguments against EVs are wrong

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Re: All the arguments against EVs are wrong

#21

Post by mecsred »

mattlondon wrote: post #19
Memetoml wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't there just a gas shortage in France and half a year ago in UK? How constant and long lasting are your power outages there? I mean no electricity for a week and all my food in the freezer is gone, no heating in winter due to pumps needing electricity and no water as well. Sounds really bad over there then?

Gas as in gas (that you heat your house with), or gas as in petroleum (that you put in your car)? For both in the UK I don't think there were "shortages" where it wasn't available. Both just shoot up in price (like they always do at the merest hint of supply shortages or whalesale cost increases ..)

Why does the UK call gasoline petroleum? Every context I've ever heard it used in, including technical, petroleum is crude oil, which DEFINITELY doesn't go in your car.

Re: All the arguments against EVs are wrong

#23

Post by mattlondon »

mecsred wrote: post #21
mattlondon wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas as in gas (that you heat your house with), or gas as in petroleum (that you put in your car)? For both in the UK I don't think there were "shortages" where it wasn't available. Both just shoot up in price (like they always do at the merest hint of supply shortages or whalesale cost increases ..)

Why does the UK call gasoline petroleum? Every context I've ever heard it used in, including technical, petroleum is crude oil, which DEFINITELY doesn't go in your car.

Well equally why does the US call the liquid you put in your car gas? :)

No one calls it petroleum - petrol is what anyone on the street would call it. Diesel is different and just called diesel. I don't know why or how this started - guessing some old thing that wasn't-quite-right but which stuck around regardless

Re: All the arguments against EVs are wrong

#24

Post by jmclnx »

For warm climates in urban areas, I can agree, but here are things never fully covered anywhere:

1. Heat in the winter, this will reduce you range, some just a little, but in places like Minnesota in Feb, a lot.

2. Stuck in traffic. If you are stuck in grid lock, that will cut in range, there have been cases were gridlock could last hours. Granted maybe EV stop power usage in this case. But under very hot or cold weather, you will lose AC and Heat. So if you have health concerns, TFB.

3. Battery recycling and disposal. Once EVs become common, I can see people being charged disposal costs for old batteries. In this case, I can see old batteries being tossed out backyards in rural. Anyone remember piles of tires sitting in people's yards 40+ years ago ?

4. Old EVs may need battery replacement, I can see this being very expensive for poor people

To me, better off moving to very good public transportation. Up until say the 1960s, people would travel via buses and trains, even for long distance. Now that is impossible. My Aunt (90+ years old) would take a train from a very rural town to the local small city on weekends for dancing and things like that in her teens/20s. That town no longer has public transportation anywhere even though its population is 30x times the size now. Time to bring that back everywhere.

For a somewhat decent system (to not as good as 70 years ago), see NY State Train routes. People still use that to get to NYC from rather long distances.

Re: All the arguments against EVs are wrong

#25

Post by eatYourFood »

mattlondon wrote: post #19
Memetoml wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't there just a gas shortage in France and half a year ago in UK? How constant and long lasting are your power outages there? I mean no electricity for a week and all my food in the freezer is gone, no heating in winter due to pumps needing electricity and no water as well. Sounds really bad over there then?

Gas as in gas (that you heat your house with), or gas as in petroleum (that you put in your car)? For both in the UK I don't think there were "shortages" where it wasn't available. Both just shoot up in price (like they always do at the merest hint of supply shortages or whalesale cost increases ..)

[dead]

Re: All the arguments against EVs are wrong

#26

Post by VintageCool »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #6

> Nor are those worries solely the province of cranks and ideologues — Simon Michaux of the Finnish Geological Survey has actually done extensive research On the contrary, Michaux tripped a few of my crank alarms, mention of EROEI being one of them.

Michaux's paper starts with the assumption that it would take about 4 weeks worth of batteries to survive the Finnish winter, and therefore every grid in the world will need 4 weeks worth of batteries.

Despite a writing a hundred page paper covering basic details of existing power generation technologies, he devotes only about a paragraph to establishing that assumption.

Additionally, there is a section dedicated to ocean shipping. Routes are currently chosen to minimize costs, traveling long distances on bunker fuel. Running those same routes on batteries would be prohibitively expensive. Instead of concluding that in the future we will do ocean shipping differently because the cost minimization will work out differently, Michaux simply adds that to the tab of batteries that we would need to decarbonize.

Re: All the arguments against EVs are wrong

#28

Post by funnymony »

Lets say EV cut co2 emissions by factor of 100x for each km traveled.

Lets say number of cars in total follows exponential progression, 5% growth per year.

It follows that after 100 years due to growth co2 gets back to original level. (Log100/log1.05=94)

EVs are required bandaid, but degrowth will come eventually. (Possibly due to climate change supply will decrease and so will consumption)

Re: All the arguments against EVs are wrong

#29

Post by mecsred »

mattlondon wrote: post #23
mecsred wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the UK call gasoline petroleum? Every context I've ever heard it used in, including technical, petroleum is crude oil, which DEFINITELY doesn't go in your car.

Well equally why does the US call the liquid you put in your car gas? :) No one calls it petroleum - petrol is what anyone on the street would call it. Diesel is different and just called diesel. I don't know why or how this started - guessing some old thing that wasn't-quite-right but which stuck around regardless

Fair point, it is also confusing, but gas and gas are two different words. One is a phase of matter and the other is a shortened form of gasoline, much like petrol/petroleum. However, gasoline does actually go in the fuel tank of your car.
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