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Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

nautil.us

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Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#271

Post by JoeAltmaier »

nmilo wrote: post #154
magnetic wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You wouldn't harm a puppy, even though it's (probably?) not conscious What makes you think a puppy is not conscious? For ref: conscious | ˈkänSHəs | adjective aware of and responding to one's surroundings; awake. Source: have a puppy. He's plenty aware of his surroundings.

You found the wrong form of the word. There's the medical consciousness found in the dictionary, as in, "He is asleep so he has lost consciousness," and there is the metaphysical consciousness as in "does a fish have consciousness?" The latter is what people refer to in ethical debates, the former is more of a medical term.

The metaphysical version is undefined. So we have the slippery discussions in this whole thread.

Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#272

Post by JoeAltmaier »

nmilo wrote: post #251
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A rock is unconscious. Is it a 'being'? What is a 'being'? Something you feel bad about treating badly? The argument is circular.

Plants, bugs, and fish are all "beings" despite having varying degrees of consciousness and ethical allowability-of-harm. But fine. Whatever, my bad. Replace "being" with "entity" and my question still stands.

Sorry, I thought that was a critical distinction, my bad.

The hard part of this conversation is that 'consciousness' in other than the 'knocked unconscious' sense is a slippery concept. So we're all arguing from different assumptions.

Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#273

Post by JoeAltmaier »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #155
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never met a dog I guess.

this is a textbook example of involuntary proving the point you were trying to disprove dogs are not like that because they are dogs, but because we humans literally created them with genetic manipulation over millennia dogs like we know them did not exists in nature before we invented them to be the way they are we literally put what we wanted them to be into them and terminated the experiments that failed (we liter…

But, if a dog can do it (care about suffering) then? It's not a purely human thing. It can be in any creature.

anyway this whole discussion is based on uncertain ground -what is consciousness? What is suffering?

Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#274

Post by hammyhavoc »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #192
PeterisP wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If in the future we developed technology that enabled effective "backup&restore" for human (and animal) minds, would that change your reasoning for this argument?

And it was as cheap and easy as it is on a computer? It would change how we deal with almost everything. All of the social structures we have around preventing people from getting hurt would be irrelevant because damage could be undone. No one would have an experience they didn't choose to have. Murder would be a crime on the level of vandalism or destruction of property. "Human life is sacred" would simply not be tr…

> And it was as cheap and easy as it is on a computer?

And yet most people still don't take backups of their data on a computer. Frequently, cost is the problem for the average Joe. Ergo the lower class would not infrequently suffer permadeath.

This isn't even getting into how often backups fail in being restored.

By your logic, if I bring down your biz's computer system and vandalize your homepage, but you still managed to restore a backup, are you not going to sue for damages et al? People go to jail for cybercrime, even if the damage can be undone. Why would murder be any different even in a world where it was hypothetically an inconvenience?

Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#275

Post by cubefox »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #248
cubefox wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, suffering is bad, and more suffering is worse than less, and knowingly acting in a way which increases suffering is wrong.

You've presented absolutely no evidence beyond the initial, evidence-less, assertion.

Which assertion? That suffering is bad? If suffering isn't bad, do you have an example where its suffering isn't bad for something?

Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#276

Post by polotics »

smnrg wrote: post #28
vasco wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we will be able to spawn an agent in a household humanoid robot and let them do the chores around the house, will we do it, even if it will imply killing that agent whenever it powers down? You betcha Unless you're against writing to persistent storage and just keep everything in RAM-like memory, why would this be a thing? Do you also feel like you "die" every day for 8 hours?

> If we will be able to spawn an agent in a household humanoid robot and let them do the chores around the house, will we do it, even if it will imply killing that agent whenever it powers down? You betcha > > Unless you're against writing to persistent storage and just keep everything in RAM-like memory, why would this be a thing? It may be fear of not being in control. If you can’t remember, you can’t plan much or…

The household agent movie is something I'd watch! Let's see: "Groundhog Dishes"? (a comedy) "Squeaky"? (modern horror) "The Cleaners" (action)...

Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#277

Post by polotics »

wincy wrote: post #49
ly3xqhl8g9 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of, we are doing a bang-up job killing ourselves and the planet. Hard to see how they could outmatch us. Launch all the nukes? In general the children are better than the parents. The replacement, if it's the case, will probably be more like in the 2001, A.I. Artificial Intelligence movie: some beings that are completely unrelatable to us would look with pity and slight amusement as a being disappears after onl…

If you want to read a story that is simultaneously one of the most hilarious and bizarre stories of a potential future where AI takes over, consider Friendship is Optimal [0], which is a way better story than it has any business being. It shows a carefully and thoughtfully trained AGI acting within its parameters to achieve the goals it has been programmed to fulfill. Namely, through friendship and ponies. You won’t…

Thanks a lot this is looking amazingly prescient. Who bought the movie rights?

Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#278

Post by nmilo »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #271
nmilo wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You found the wrong form of the word. There's the medical consciousness found in the dictionary, as in, "He is asleep so he has lost consciousness," and there is the metaphysical consciousness as in "does a fish have consciousness?" The latter is what people refer to in ethical debates, the former is more of a medical term.

The metaphysical version is undefined. So we have the slippery discussions in this whole thread.

That's the whole point. Consciousness is a fuzzy concept and shouldn't be used as an ethical basis as to what is OK to harm and not harm.

Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#279

Post by TheGigaChad »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #39
ly3xqhl8g9 wrote: post #15

"The dawn of conscious machines will introduce vast new potential for suffering in the world, suffering we might not even be able to recognize, and which might flicker into existence in innumerable server farms at the click of a mouse." Yes, because we all know that humans care so much about the suffering of others: from fellow humans dying right now pointless deaths (poverty, aberrant laws, malevolent leaders, etc.)…

> Yes, because we all know that humans care so much about the suffering of others: from fellow humans dying right now pointless deaths We are provably the only living being on Earth that do care about it. > If we will be able to spawn an agent in a household humanoid robot and let them do the chores around the house, will we do it, even if it will imply killing that agent whenever it powers down? You betcha That's th…

[dead]

Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#280

Post by JoeAltmaier »

nmilo wrote: post #278
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The metaphysical version is undefined. So we have the slippery discussions in this whole thread.

That's the whole point. Consciousness is a fuzzy concept and shouldn't be used as an ethical basis as to what is OK to harm and not harm.

I guess we slip into that because inanimate objects are ok to manipulate as we wish without concern. It's a gentle slope from there up to humans, and somewhere along the line it becomes problematic.
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