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Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

nautil.us

171–180 of 310 posts

Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We can't know for certain whether something is or isn't conscious, but we have to try to make a best guess. We now have AI which is trained on data generated by humans who are (probably?) conscious and feel pain etc. So it can generate output which implies that it's conscious and can feel pain etc., even when that isn't the case. What do you do with something that can pass the Turing test but still isn't human?

Thinking about the analogical inference helps here: We know that LLMs work very differently from humans, and we know why Sydney or LaMDA sometimes says it is conscious (it imitates human text). So the analogical inference doesn't allow us to infer that LLMs are conscious, or provides only very weak evidence. And since it seems plausible that most things (e.g. rocks) are not conscious, it seems reasonable to think tha…

Reasoning from how we know something works is a shaky foundation when the passage of time causes them to become more complicated and correspondingly causes us to less understand how they work.

The existing ones can write code. Suppose we get ones that can write better code and engage in self-improvement. Now you have something which is a billion lines of code and is under constant self-modification. We no longer have any idea how it works, but it can feign consciousness in much the same way as existing LLMs. What's the test for if it actually achieves consciousness?

I can give you one that a human being in good health will pass and a rock will fail. Can you give me one that an AI feigning consciousness will fail?

Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is demonstrably false. We know other species can empathise[1] and there are countless examples of them helping others in distress. It's astounding that anyone can even assert such a thing so confidently. [1] https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/not-bad-science/can-pig...

yeah, that's not a rebuttal though I was pointing out that humans are the only species that cares about this stuff, not simply that humans can empathize Where are pigs armies in support of the Ukranian invasion? ( fellow humans dying right now pointless deaths ) Where are pigs trying to save other animal species from extinction? ( the suffering of others ) what kind of advancement in thought have pigs produced regard…

Having the ability/capability to enact change is not the same as caring. A person, or a whole species, can care about the suffering of others without having the ability to do anything about it, or even realising the scale or nature of the problem due to limited intelligence.

Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that other humans are so similar to me (all humans are similar in virtue of being human organisms) allows for an analogical inference: You guys are similar to me, I am conscious, therefore you are probably also conscious. And whether or not something is conscious matters a lot ethically. If something is conscious, it may suffer. Conscious and unconscious objects have to be treated in a completely different w…

> The fact that other humans are so similar to me (all humans are similar in virtue of being human organisms) allows for an analogical inference: You guys are similar to me, I am conscious, therefore you are probably also conscious. That hinges on the fact that the brain, or human-like body, is related to the existence of consciousness. But there's no reason to believe that a bunch of electrical pulses as the source…

I am both consciousness and have a brain, and alterations in the brain (chemical or physical) correlate with changes in consciousness. Which suggests that our "bunch of electrical pulses" are at least sufficient for consciousness. Plants may be also be conscious, but that would require the existence of an additional, very different, cause of consciousness than in humans. The theory "X is only explained by Y" is simpler than "X is explained by Y, and X is explained by Z". Ockham's razor suggests it's more likely for there to be fewer causes than many.

Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#174

Most of us share the experience of having driven a car from A to B, without having any conscious recollection about the trip. From such experiences we can deduce that our level of consciousness is not constant, but it fluctuates. Our experience, however, is that consciousness is a constant. The ancient mystics, monks and people studying meditation and other similar practices have made some practical observations. The…

> Most of us share the experience of having driven a car from A to B, without having any conscious recollection about the trip. From such experiences we can deduce that our level of consciousness is not constant, but it fluctuates. I’m not sure that I would characterize this as a ‘lack of consciousness’. Of all the times that I have experienced this, it’s because I was thinking deeply about something else (not lackin…

Have you ever been reading a book, only to discover that your eyes are still scanning the page while your mind was doing something else? There's a particular flavor of "oops" as a certain capacity comes back online. Informally, you might call it "knowing what's happening in your field of experience." It can also be called metacognition. Meditation can reduce or eliminate these "oops" moments. It also shows you just how much more common that state is than you realize (or would likely even believe, due to a particular trick the mind plays).

It really does feel like one had been sleepwalking through one's life up until that point. One certainly feels "more conscious" afterward.

Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#175
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Excuse me, I know _I_ am conscious. There is literally nothing you can do to proof that there's anything outside of what I am conscious of. The world could be a very stable illusion, a dream, a simulation and it would all be the same. You should really read some Hegel

I'd be interested in a more direct reference if you have one.

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Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that other humans are so similar to me (all humans are similar in virtue of being human organisms) allows for an analogical inference: You guys are similar to me, I am conscious, therefore you are probably also conscious. That hinges on the fact that the brain, or human-like body, is related to the existence of consciousness. But there's no reason to believe that a bunch of electrical pulses as the source…

I am both consciousness and have a brain, and alterations in the brain (chemical or physical) correlate with changes in consciousness. Which suggests that our "bunch of electrical pulses" are at least sufficient for consciousness. Plants may be also be conscious, but that would require the existence of an additional, very different, cause of consciousness than in humans. The theory "X is only explained by Y" is simpl…

I am not convinced. Consider the color red. I can explain the physics of what the color red is, how it travels through space, how my eyes interact with the particular waves, sends signal to my brain and somehow generates what I think of as "red".

But this explanation is meaningless, there's nothing about the waves that explain why "red" is the way it is. For example, why don't I experience red as blue and vice versa? Similarly, consciousness is like that. I can have an explanation down to the quarks and follow the chain of physical phenomena that happen from the big bang up to this point and I will find nothing that would explain why there's "something" at all. In a sense, the fact that the color "red" is the way I perceive it is merely a coincidence. I happen to experience it that way. There's no reason why it has to be that way.

I had similar experience when I learnt that some people don't have inner monologue; it completely blew my understanding of what "is like".

Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#177

Most of us share the experience of having driven a car from A to B, without having any conscious recollection about the trip. From such experiences we can deduce that our level of consciousness is not constant, but it fluctuates. Our experience, however, is that consciousness is a constant. The ancient mystics, monks and people studying meditation and other similar practices have made some practical observations. The…

> We should be less concerned about the consciousness of the AI Author's warning seems to be: 1. "Conscious" means you can feel things (have feelings) 2. "Conscious" means you can have intentions 3. --> A conscious AI could be hurt, take umbrage, and take measures to either protect itself or take revenge. Kids tear wings off insects; I can certainly imagine people inflicting pain on a machine on the principle that it…

[deleted]

Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that other humans are so similar to me (all humans are similar in virtue of being human organisms) allows for an analogical inference: You guys are similar to me, I am conscious, therefore you are probably also conscious. And whether or not something is conscious matters a lot ethically. If something is conscious, it may suffer. Conscious and unconscious objects have to be treated in a completely different w…

While assuming that other human-looking things are conscious is a reasonable starting point, it certainly isn’t a given. There seems to be a wide variety of thinking processes. Some folks don’t have internal monologues. Some folks can’t visualize images at all, and the ones that do, do it will varying amount of detail. Isn’t it also reasonable that other humans have different degrees of consciousness, including perha…

Yeah, but the "expected similarity" (the expected value of the degree of similarity) for consciousness should still be high. That is, there are in expectation more people that are very similar to me than people that are very dissimilar.

There is a related Bayesian argument: You draw one ball from an urn with an unknown number of black and white balls. The drawn ball is black. This is some evidence that most balls are black, because otherwise it would have been less likely that you have drawn the black ball earlier.

Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#179

"The dawn of conscious machines will introduce vast new potential for suffering in the world, suffering we might not even be able to recognize, and which might flicker into existence in innumerable server farms at the click of a mouse." Yes, because we all know that humans care so much about the suffering of others: from fellow humans dying right now pointless deaths (poverty, aberrant laws, malevolent leaders, etc.)…

> Yes, because we all know that humans care so much about the suffering of others: from fellow humans dying right now pointless deaths (poverty, aberrant laws, malevolent leaders, etc.) to the billions [1] of animals we are killing each year for food (I still eat meat, no innocence here).

Humans pulled off a pretty impressive emulation of caring during COVID ("Eeeeevery life maaaaatters!!!"), I wonder if we paid more attention to details like this, might it occur to us that there are exploits in consciousness that we could use on ourselves with conscious intentionality to make the world a better place?

Re: Why Conscious AI Is a Bad, Bad Idea

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While assuming that other human-looking things are conscious is a reasonable starting point, it certainly isn’t a given. There seems to be a wide variety of thinking processes. Some folks don’t have internal monologues. Some folks can’t visualize images at all, and the ones that do, do it will varying amount of detail. Isn’t it also reasonable that other humans have different degrees of consciousness, including perha…

One definition or property of consciousness I find interesting is that it encompasses “what it is like to be ”. If there is something that it is like to be , it is conscious. Intelligence and awareness are separate from consciousness in this framing. And there is arguably a point where we can speculate that extremely simplistic organisms could not be conscious, given the lack of sense organs that seems to predicate e…

Somewhat related, there are people who say aphantasia can be cured: https://sashachapin.substack.com/p/i-cured-my-aphantasia-wit...
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