Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts • Hacker News Board

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#531

Post by justinclift » Sat, May 13, 2023, 8:26 AM UTC

quad_eye_oh wrote: post #427

bee_rider wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should also be noted that locking people up puts them in contact with a bunch of convicted criminals. Making weed illegal put a bunch of otherwise harmless people in a situation where they wanted to do illegal business. The liberal position—don’t make relatively harmless stuff illegal—is one way to reduce the amount of crime. Sure, lock up people who do violent crimes (I mean, get them out of society while we try…

I think some of this political conflict is over what constitutes a harmless or victimless or nonviolent crime. In the past year I've seen different people claim that hemp consumption, property crime, and even intimidation with a firearm were nonviolent and that their perpetrators were merely marginalized individuals who need social assistance rather than prosecution. I think GP's point is that even property crime is…

Just to point out:

> ... property crime is not victimless: It hurts everyone ...

"victimless" and "hurts everyone" are both at the two extreme, opposite ends of a spectrum.

It's fairly likely some of the property crimes occurring could be somewhere in the middle.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#532

Post by thephyber » Sat, May 13, 2023, 8:38 AM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #434

bluescrn wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem area seems to be property crime without direct violence. It can ruin the victims life just as much as non-lethal violence (taking away a person's source of income, or transport required to keep a job, or wrecking a business they've spent many years building), but many take the 'it's only property, it's probably insured!' attitude. And many at least see stealing from 'big nasty corporations' as relatively…

'it's only property, it's probably insured!' I wonder why insurance is so high...

I almost had to sit for a jury trial. Guy stole things worth less than $950, was likely homeless, the prosecution took 22 months to build a case and failed to leverage a plea bargain, named about 30 law enforcement officers and/or forensics specialists as potential witnesses, and jury selection started with 100 citizens and took 4+ days, then the judge claimed it would take 6 weeks to try the case.

The problem isn’t just insurance. It’s that prosecution is insanely slow and is far more harmful to society than the actual crime.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#533

Post by dotancohen » Sat, May 13, 2023, 8:44 AM UTC

kooshball wrote: post #335

lesuorac wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prison is where criminals go. Jail is where people not convicted of a crime go. Drug Offenses are nearly half the prison population [1]. So the prison population can decrease by significant amounts without releasing any violent criminals. [1]: https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offen...

> Drug Offenses are nearly half the prison population this is not true. your data is federal only. most prisoners are at state prisons. drug offense is about 1/5 of total. source https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2023.html

A reduction of 20% is most certainly significant.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#534

Post by psd1 » Sat, May 13, 2023, 8:57 AM UTC

tomp wrote: post #275

pySSK wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> openly anti-communist organization You say that like it's a bad thing. Most organisations worldwide, are openly anti-communist, except those that explicitly support dictatorship and human rights abuse. I guess that's a good thing.

My employer is headquartered in the US and has presence in about 30 countries. I don't recall them taking a position on communism.

I don't understand why Americans still cling to this villain. It's 2023, the USSR collapsed 30 years ago.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#535

Post by _v7gu » Sat, May 13, 2023, 9:10 AM UTC

bee_rider wrote: post #407

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider myself a liberal, but while I think pretty much all drug possession charges should be dropped and decriminalized, violent crime? Robbery? Those folks should absolutely be in jail. I don't care if we have to build tent cities to incarcerate them. You hurt someone intentionally, you should not be breathing free air for a while.

It should also be noted that locking people up puts them in contact with a bunch of convicted criminals. Making weed illegal put a bunch of otherwise harmless people in a situation where they wanted to do illegal business. The liberal position—don’t make relatively harmless stuff illegal—is one way to reduce the amount of crime. Sure, lock up people who do violent crimes (I mean, get them out of society while we try…

Well, good thing is that rehabilitation is the central goal of correctional systems; so you can send thiefs/etc to prison without feeling guilty. This is not a problem that requires a novel solution; almost every other rich country has this sorted out. The central issue US has to fix is reorient prisons around this goal, instead of trying to exploit the slave labor loophole in your constitution.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#536

Post by EliRivers » Sat, May 13, 2023, 9:17 AM UTC

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #296

swearwolf wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1.) Though this is becoming an increasingly popular viewpoint in many of the American cities that are experiencing these problems right now, it’s far from universally held. 2.) The U.S. is not a monolith, so looking at the prison population of the United States as a whole doesn’t tell you about what’s going on in an individual state or city. 3.) The number of people incarcerated has a long tail. In the U.S. in partic…

I consider myself a liberal, but while I think pretty much all drug possession charges should be dropped and decriminalized, violent crime? Robbery? Those folks should absolutely be in jail. I don't care if we have to build tent cities to incarcerate them. You hurt someone intentionally, you should not be breathing free air for a while.

You hurt someone intentionally, you should not be breathing free air for a while.

Genuine question; is that only physically? If I like causing people pain and anguish and suffering, and my weapon of choice is words, should I also be incarcerated because I hurt people intentionally? I tend towards not giving people a free pass simply because their weapon of choice is words, but (amongst other things) the US has a reputation for being very permissive with the spoken word.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#537

Post by [deleted] » Sat, May 13, 2023, 9:25 AM UTC

matthewdgreen wrote: post #465

maeil wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where is Baltimore supposed to get the funding to meet this increase in demand for city services? That is for American politics to figure out. This is an American political issue and blaming Korean car makers is absurd.

Once you’ve had a gun pointed at you from a car, taken down the license plate, then been told there’s nothing they can do because the car was stolen —- you’ll realize that car theft isn’t some individual problem. We’ve had the tech to solve this problem for decades, but car manufacturers decided to save a few bucks.

[deleted]

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#538

Post by Ekaros » Sat, May 13, 2023, 9:27 AM UTC

matthewdgreen wrote: post #465

maeil wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where is Baltimore supposed to get the funding to meet this increase in demand for city services? That is for American politics to figure out. This is an American political issue and blaming Korean car makers is absurd.

Once you’ve had a gun pointed at you from a car, taken down the license plate, then been told there’s nothing they can do because the car was stolen —- you’ll realize that car theft isn’t some individual problem. We’ve had the tech to solve this problem for decades, but car manufacturers decided to save a few bucks.

Couldn't a car be stolen also by pointing gun at the owner? The problem is the people the citizens that do these crimes. Not the technical implementations of vehicles.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#539

Post by Ekaros » Sat, May 13, 2023, 9:39 AM UTC

HPsquared wrote: post #359

olyjohn wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's the government's fault for not making them mandatory in the US. Better sue the federal government too.

They do have a lot more money than Kia (though probably not in net worth terms)

And they can always print or loan(maybe) more...

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#540

Post by Ekaros » Sat, May 13, 2023, 9:48 AM UTC

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #4

Imagine if a city sued homeowners because it’s their fault for calling the police after a break-in, because they used a deadbolt that failed the LockPickingLawyer. This is about equally as sane. Yes, yes, I know that Hyundai and Kia vehicles are easy pickings, but they talk as though “those vehicles are easy to steal, so those teenagers, they just felt so compelled to…” Nobody forces somebody to steal a car. If anti-…

Not the homeowners but the Master Lock. Which when hearing about quality of their products seems exactly same scenario. They do deserve to be sued in similar fashion for producing poor products. Like any pin and tumbler lock makers.