421–430 of 670 posts
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> the US is prosecuting and incarcerating broad swathes of innocent people. There's about half a million people in jail right now who haven't been convicted of a crime. Some of them are innocent, for sure.
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If there were a bicycle manufacturer that knowingly made its bikes easier to steal and sell, AND those bicycles when stolen were linked to numerous horrific collisions resulting in death and major injury of innocent parties, then there might be a comparison.
I don't know, in theory you could totally argue a bike could make it impossible to pedal without a key (the tech certainly exists). Your and at the end is really just building a straw man, it's not what's being discussed here.
Deadly Crash Brings New Attention To Viral 'Kia Challenge' Trend https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B1laqHpw7A
Robbins police: 3 teens in stolen Kia arrested after 71-year-old man dies in crash https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC_QeFdPtus
Teen killed, suspect on the run after stolen car crashes on Roosevelt Boulevard https://www.fox29.com/news/police-stolen-kia-involved-deadly...
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Apparently incarceration and death penalty do not really work as a deterrent in this country. Is it because most of the violent crimes are related to drug addiction?
The US prison system is violent and brutal, which begets a high recidivism rate. In my opinion this is because American culture tends to confuse retribution for justice but opinions vary I'm sure.
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The whole conceit of pre-trial detention is that we do not know if the detainees are guilty.
I should point out to those not from the US that this is how Americans view the US. There is a lot of crime, the government and NGOs are on the side of the criminals etc. It is up voted to the top as well, with agreement in the replies, this is how Americans view the US. The US incarcerates more people than China, despite China having more than four times as many people, but the view obviously is the incarceration ra…
This is an apple & orange measure. Starting from first principles, that is how people behave in society, we can at least temper superficial reading of bare metrics.
Human beings self police under surveillance. This is the entire point of setting up surveillance states. US in contrast tends more towards police state: show of force to partition society in distinct 'social climates', directly informed by economic means.
So, yes, a police state will attempt to partition, even to the extremity of incarceration, and a surveillance state (which is a super-set of police-state) applies psychological force and thus has a much reduced subset that it will deem 'problematic'. Ideally, a state like China will like to approach the limit of having every 'citizen' well trained and well behaved, as domesticated humans.
Our problem over here is (given a generous disposition) that we struggle with reconciling freedom and order without resorting to brainwashing the population, or (less generously) that structural characteristic of our system where "freedom" is bound with at times grotesque wealth disparities naturally creates social hostility, and the economic incentives of a criminal life.
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I consider myself a liberal, but while I think pretty much all drug possession charges should be dropped and decriminalized, violent crime? Robbery? Those folks should absolutely be in jail. I don't care if we have to build tent cities to incarcerate them. You hurt someone intentionally, you should not be breathing free air for a while.
It should also be noted that locking people up puts them in contact with a bunch of convicted criminals. Making weed illegal put a bunch of otherwise harmless people in a situation where they wanted to do illegal business. The liberal position—don’t make relatively harmless stuff illegal—is one way to reduce the amount of crime. Sure, lock up people who do violent crimes (I mean, get them out of society while we try…
In the past year I've seen different people claim that hemp consumption, property crime, and even intimidation with a firearm were nonviolent and that their perpetrators were merely marginalized individuals who need social assistance rather than prosecution.
I think GP's point is that even property crime is not victimless: It hurts everyone, it makes society worse, and it likely hurts the people at the bottom of society disproportionately.
But I may add, then, that the reformers have the burden of showing evidence for their position: they need to demonstrate that it is possible to have a low-crime, low-prosecution, high social net city somewhere in the US. I'm beginning to suspect that they are missing some critical component which is required to make such a system work for everyone.
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I don't know, in theory you could totally argue a bike could make it impossible to pedal without a key (the tech certainly exists). Your and at the end is really just building a straw man, it's not what's being discussed here.
Who's building a straw man? There's plenty of examples of exactly the scenario I mentioned happening. Deadly Crash Brings New Attention To Viral 'Kia Challenge' Trend https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B1laqHpw7A Robbins police: 3 teens in stolen Kia arrested after 71-year-old man dies in crash https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC_QeFdPtus Teen killed, suspect on the run after stolen car crashes on Roosevelt Boulevard ht…
You simply switched to an argument you could 'win' despite no one else actually bringing it up or refuting it.
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China has literal concentration camps and prisoner organ harvesting. I don't think your comparison means much.
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Just because China calls everything it dislikes “propaganda” doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
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As someone currently in Japan, still a bit shocked how it's actually possible to leave your bike unlocked in a major city and expect to see it the next day, I do find it rediculous to blame the manufacturer for crime. Like what's next, suing a lock manufacturer for being too easy to pick (you can literally look up how to pick 99% of locks on YouTube).
Everyone here keeps failing to mention the part where Kia didn’t care about the customers who complained, but instead extorted people out of another $500 to $1,000 to resolve the issue for them. People have also failed to mention the part where insurers are dropping people with Kia Souls because they are too high risk.
It's totally fair for absolutely no one in the US to buy from KIA again. But if they were following the law by omitting ignition locking (maybe under some misguided notion that the US isn't as crime ridden as it is).
There's some countries and still some parts of the US where you could realistically leave the cars in the ignition for weeks and the car wouldn't be stolen. This is nothing but a symptom of a larger issue.