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Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

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Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#401

Post by quickthrower2 »

emodendroket wrote: post #381
ravensfan69 wrote: post #139

I live in Baltimore, in a pretty "good" part of town where most of the young professionals and Hopkins hospital staff live. I know 4 different people who've had cars stolen in the past 24 months. In 3 of these cases the perpetrators were teenagers, and in 2 of these cases they brandished guns. Only one of these thefts were Hyundai/Kia-related, and the thief punched my buddy in the face during the theft. Many others I…

All of which is neither here nor there when it comes to their failure to install common antitheft measures other manufacturers do, even taking it at face value (which frankly I find hard to do).

It might be hear or there when it comes to suing them. They would need to show that the antitheft deficiencies caused more crime. Or did it shift it to different manufacturers cars.

From other comments I get the sense that yes they can show this, but defence can argue that the crime would happen anyway. A bit like the security system doesn’t stop a burglar it makes them walk to the next home.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#402

Post by hn_throawlles »

Convolutional wrote: post #185

I should point out to those not from the US that this is how Americans view the US. There is a lot of crime, the government and NGOs are on the side of the criminals etc. It is up voted to the top as well, with agreement in the replies, this is how Americans view the US. The US incarcerates more people than China, despite China having more than four times as many people, but the view obviously is the incarceration ra…

it looks like they either:

- don't understand the origin of crime

- own stock in those private companies that run prisons (capitalism at its worse)

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#403

Post by hn_throawlles »

pb7 wrote: post #330
kevviiinn wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I looked up "police state" and got this: >a totalitarian state controlled by a political police force that secretly supervises the citizens' activities Can you explain how the US is all of those things?

they use your intel against you,

don't know about amd.... * slaps knee *

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#404

Post by thereisnospork »

plagiarist wrote: post #247
tohnjitor wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is the US has more people who commit violent crimes.

Why is that?

Does it matter? The solution to keeping violent people away from the rest of us is orthogonal to the solution to limiting societal production of violent people.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#405

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

xkcd-sucks wrote: post #342
plagiarist wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Baltimore is asserting they have standing regarding financial damages incurred from policing the thefts. If only there was some way to resolve whether the defendant or plaintiff is the correct party!

But it's established through case law that police aren't obligated to do anything about theft. So the costs of policing thefts would seem to be voluntary, not damages. Interesting to see how it turns out.

You have a good point here, would the judge rule that only the time taken to help file a report can be sued for? Any more than that and it sounds like you could theoretically sue the police for not finding your car.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#406

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

op00to wrote: post #228
local_crmdgeon wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? Bikes are easier to steal and sell, and we don't see them being sued. The logic is the same.

If there were a bicycle manufacturer that knowingly made its bikes easier to steal and sell, AND those bicycles when stolen were linked to numerous horrific collisions resulting in death and major injury of innocent parties, then there might be a comparison.

I don't know, in theory you could totally argue a bike could make it impossible to pedal without a key (the tech certainly exists).

Your and at the end is really just building a straw man, it's not what's being discussed here.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#407

Post by bee_rider »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #296
swearwolf wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1.) Though this is becoming an increasingly popular viewpoint in many of the American cities that are experiencing these problems right now, it’s far from universally held. 2.) The U.S. is not a monolith, so looking at the prison population of the United States as a whole doesn’t tell you about what’s going on in an individual state or city. 3.) The number of people incarcerated has a long tail. In the U.S. in partic…

I consider myself a liberal, but while I think pretty much all drug possession charges should be dropped and decriminalized, violent crime? Robbery? Those folks should absolutely be in jail. I don't care if we have to build tent cities to incarcerate them. You hurt someone intentionally, you should not be breathing free air for a while.

It should also be noted that locking people up puts them in contact with a bunch of convicted criminals. Making weed illegal put a bunch of otherwise harmless people in a situation where they wanted to do illegal business.

The liberal position—don’t make relatively harmless stuff illegal—is one way to reduce the amount of crime.

Sure, lock up people who do violent crimes (I mean, get them out of society while we try to figure out if we can get them psychological help), but instead of doing something dystopian like tent prison cities, just let out the people who shouldn’t be there in the first place.

(All that is to say, I agree with you, just think we should focus on the part that will benefit society).

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#408

Post by jolux »

mc32 wrote: post #361
jolux wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I linked the DOJ and not the Equal Justice Initiative because I thought they would be less likely to be seen as partisan or politically motivated. But here’s EJI on the same issue: https://eji.org/issues/prison-conditions/ and Harvard Political Review making a similar argument to my top post (that US prisons don’t adequately rehabilitate): https://harvardpolitics.com/recidivism-american-progress/ And since you linked…

I agree that our justice and prison systems need a recalibration to one, focus on violent crime, aggravated sexual crime, property crime, and de-emphasis on personal vice correction while also trying to guide prisoners to a better path. At the same time, I wish to point out most other prison systems in the world are similar or worse and suspects before they become prisoners have fewer legal rights afforded them. That…

> At the same time, I wish to point out most other prison systems in the world are similar or worse

This might be true but I do not think it’s true of most peer countries (Western Europe, Canada, etc). I do believe that US prisons are among the least humane of this group as well as the least effective at rehabilitation. Again, this is not to say that those other systems do not have problems, just that the severity of the worst abuses and the extent of abuse in general is worse here.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#409

Post by hoofhearted »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #395
hoofhearted wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a little early to be drinking isn’t it? The city is suing to recover the money they spent on all the police efforts expended because Kia cut corners to reduce costs.

As someone currently in Japan, still a bit shocked how it's actually possible to leave your bike unlocked in a major city and expect to see it the next day, I do find it rediculous to blame the manufacturer for crime. Like what's next, suing a lock manufacturer for being too easy to pick (you can literally look up how to pick 99% of locks on YouTube).

Everyone here keeps failing to mention the part where Kia didn’t care about the customers who complained, but instead extorted people out of another $500 to $1,000 to resolve the issue for them.

People have also failed to mention the part where insurers are dropping people with Kia Souls because they are too high risk.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#410

Post by emodendroket »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #401
emodendroket wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of which is neither here nor there when it comes to their failure to install common antitheft measures other manufacturers do, even taking it at face value (which frankly I find hard to do).

It might be hear or there when it comes to suing them. They would need to show that the antitheft deficiencies caused more crime. Or did it shift it to different manufacturers cars. From other comments I get the sense that yes they can show this, but defence can argue that the crime would happen anyway. A bit like the security system doesn’t stop a burglar it makes them walk to the next home.

I wouldn’t be so sure that more people don’t commit crimes if they’re just really easy. Imagine someone leaving their car unlocked with a sack of cash sitting on the driver’s seat. Isn’t it pretty easy to imagine someone taking that even if they’re not exactly committed enough to theft to smash cars’ windows and rifle through the gloveboxes?
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