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Tucker’s Message Fiasco Is the Wakeup Call You Need to Auto-Delete Your Messages

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Re: Tucker’s Message Fiasco Is the Wakeup Call You Need to Auto-Delete Your Messages

#81

Post by pfannkuchen »

maxerickson wrote: post #78
pfannkuchen wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we asserting here that the traditional rules of martial engagement are the same across all cultures in the world? Or we are saying that European cultures are not fairly similar to one another in this regard, due to a shared religious heritage? I’m confused what people are angry about here.

It'd be less offensive if it were even vaguely true. Lots of guys willing to jump you or slit your throat for a nickel or whatever.

Well, sure, not everyone follows the moral code of their culture. It is like if the Jones family tells their misbehaving son “this is not how Jones’ behave” and the son replies “I am a Jones and I am behaving this way, so your statement is inaccurate, QED”.

Other groups have different cultures, and it is reasonable to speak for one’s own group and one’s own cultural moral code. It is only offensive if you believe European values are universal - do you? I am a moral relativist, personally.

Re: Tucker’s Message Fiasco Is the Wakeup Call You Need to Auto-Delete Your Messages

#82

Post by derekp7 »

cm2187 wrote: post #28
parker_mountain wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Or, radical new idea here, how about conduct yourself in a reasonable way where if everyone in the world read your text messages you wouldn't be fired or go to jail? This is ridiculous. There are so many things you can do that are ethical and illegal. Or ethical and legal and would still piss a lot of people off. Or, how about just wanting to rant off the record with friends? This idea the default should be "act lik…

Or humour. Hard to make any joke in private that won't offend (or pretend to be offended) someone on the internet.

That's what I call "synthetically offended". It is where there is no offense intended, and none actually received, but the potentially offended party (or more likely a third party) can string together something to make it look like an offense. Often as a "gotcha" to the "offender".

So next time someone takes offense at something, ask them are they really offended, or synthetically offended?

Re: Tucker’s Message Fiasco Is the Wakeup Call You Need to Auto-Delete Your Messages

#83

Post by pfannkuchen »

krapp wrote: post #33
pfannkuchen wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we asserting here that the traditional rules of martial engagement are the same across all cultures in the world? Or we are saying that European cultures are not fairly similar to one another in this regard, due to a shared religious heritage? I’m confused what people are angry about here.

There are no "traditional rules of martial engagement." White people surround, mob up on and beat the shit out of people just as much as people of any other race. To imply that white people are above such behavior (and thus that other races are less civilized) is a white supremacist and racist mentality. But you already knew that.

This is a strangely hostile interpretation of what Carlson said and also of what I have said. You seem very ready to be angry about this. I am interested in a lucid discussion of the topic, and I would be happy to engage with you in that way if you are so inclined.

I think it is pretty clear that in context the Carlson quote means "how white men [should] behave [according to their culture (which is not completely homogenous but does have a bulk of fairly common values sourced from Christianity and longstanding cultural cross pollination on the continent and related colonies)]".

Other cultures have different cultural traditions and rules for behavior. This is a fact and it is not innately offensive, in a vacuum. We see N-on-1 combat as immoral because we have been brainwashed with a particular morality. I don't believe it is the case that all groups throughout history have seen N-on-1 combat as immoral. Would you claim that they have and do, and that N-on-1 combat is universally immoral?

My best guess at why people are angry when this is discussed is because they have internalized our time-and-place morality as universal, and so any mention of people having a different morality is interpreted as equivalent to calling them "bad people". Calling other groups "bad people" is itself highly immoral in today's time-and-place morality, so, transitively, anyone mentioning other groups' differing morality have themselves committed an immoral act. The moral impulse in the observer is thus inflamed.

There is an extremely ironic submerged Eurocentrism in this way of thinking (i.e. internalizing our Euro-rooted time-and-place morality as universal).

Re: Tucker’s Message Fiasco Is the Wakeup Call You Need to Auto-Delete Your Messages

#84

Post by igetspam »

bena wrote: post #61
jkeisling wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So “if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear”? Would you tell that to abortion rights activists in Mississippi, journalists reviewing the Panama Papers, or dissidents in China? Radical new idea here, but maybe you shouldn’t believe that everyone in authority from now till you die will only fire and jail people for the ideas that you personally don’t have or like, or suggest data privacy rules for others…

Not exactly what he's saying. To be fair, he's expressing himself poorly. Because, yes, "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." He wants to say something more like "Conduct yourself in a way where if everyone read your messages they won't realize what a fucking miserable, intolerant asshole you are". And let's be completely fair here. Tucker Carlson wasn't fired for hold…

Very well stated. It's not that we have to or need to conduct ourselves like we're being watched, we should just be decent human beings because we should be. I don't have to worry about the sexist or racist or bigoted emails or jokes I've sent coming back to me for one simple reason: I'm not a sexist, a racist or a bigot. That shouldn't be a hard box for most people to check. At least, it shouldn't be.

Re: Tucker’s Message Fiasco Is the Wakeup Call You Need to Auto-Delete Your Messages

#85

Post by krapp »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #83
krapp wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no "traditional rules of martial engagement." White people surround, mob up on and beat the shit out of people just as much as people of any other race. To imply that white people are above such behavior (and thus that other races are less civilized) is a white supremacist and racist mentality. But you already knew that.

This is a strangely hostile interpretation of what Carlson said and also of what I have said. You seem very ready to be angry about this. I am interested in a lucid discussion of the topic, and I would be happy to engage with you in that way if you are so inclined. I think it is pretty clear that in context the Carlson quote means "how white men [should] behave [according to their culture (which is not completely hom…

I note how you and other posters here are referring to "cultures" when Tucker Carlson was explicitly referring to race, not culture. "white" is not a culture. Tucker Carlson was not making a comment based on a neutral anthropological analysis of European cultural values as derived from Christianity and as they apply to the ethics of organized combat, which, again, don't actually exist but one based on racial stereotypes, specifically, black racial stereotypes related to violence and criminality.

He even admits this. It shouldn't even be debatable.

I'm not going to continue further because it's obvious you're trying very, very hard not to grasp such a simple and obvious point. I'm afraid you might sprain something reaching so hard.

And no, calling someone racist is not itself highly immoral in today's time and place morality, and thus equivalent to racism itself. Your rationale is as puerile as it is obviously in bad faith.

Good day.

Re: Tucker’s Message Fiasco Is the Wakeup Call You Need to Auto-Delete Your Messages

#86

Post by igetspam »

jdasdf wrote: post #30
JohnMakin wrote: post #2

> Think twice before sending a message, even over Signal. You will likely not be able to predict when you will be sued, investigated, or otherwise thrown into the lime-light. Or, radical new idea here, how about conduct yourself in a reasonable way where if everyone in the world read your text messages you wouldn't be fired or go to jail?

>Or, radical new idea here, how about conduct yourself in a reasonable way where if everyone in the world read your text messages you wouldn't be fired or go to jail? There is no man on earth who has ever been able to do that. Do you have any other impossible suggestions?

Hold on there bud, please don't speak for all of us. I'm quite confident that I and most people, even some other men, do not share your risk profile. I prefer to just be a decent person.

Re: Tucker’s Message Fiasco Is the Wakeup Call You Need to Auto-Delete Your Messages

#87

Post by d23 »

web3-is-a-scam wrote: post #20
JohnMakin wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yes, that makes it much better.

Yes, it actually does. You've never had intrusive thoughts or been caught up in mob/tribalisitc mentality?

These are the thoughts of an utter sociopath. He's a skilled propagandist trying to dress up his racism and psychopathy and put it in a more presentable package.

Re: Tucker’s Message Fiasco Is the Wakeup Call You Need to Auto-Delete Your Messages

#88

Post by pupppet »

JohnMakin wrote: post #2

> Think twice before sending a message, even over Signal. You will likely not be able to predict when you will be sued, investigated, or otherwise thrown into the lime-light. Or, radical new idea here, how about conduct yourself in a reasonable way where if everyone in the world read your text messages you wouldn't be fired or go to jail?

There's a lot of conflating making jokes with being racist in the replies here.

Re: Tucker’s Message Fiasco Is the Wakeup Call You Need to Auto-Delete Your Messages

#89

Post by thunky »

JohnMakin wrote: post #68
bena wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly what he's saying. To be fair, he's expressing himself poorly. Because, yes, "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." He wants to say something more like "Conduct yourself in a way where if everyone read your messages they won't realize what a fucking miserable, intolerant asshole you are". And let's be completely fair here. Tucker Carlson wasn't fired for hold…

That's clearly what I meant, but people will read what they want.

This is a good example of why being a decent person may not be enough to keep you out of trouble.

Re: Tucker’s Message Fiasco Is the Wakeup Call You Need to Auto-Delete Your Messages

#90

Post by mcphage »

thunky wrote: post #89
JohnMakin wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's clearly what I meant, but people will read what they want.

This is a good example of why being a decent person may not be enough to keep you out of trouble.

I’m not sure he’s in trouble, though.
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