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Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

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Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#291

Post by plagiarist »

linksnapzz wrote: post #264
plagiarist wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Baltimore is asserting they have standing regarding financial damages incurred from policing the thefts. If only there was some way to resolve whether the defendant or plaintiff is the correct party!

Hyundai should countersue the city, for having such a reprobrate populace that necessitates that manufacturers of durable goods implement increasingly elaborate and expensive antitheft schemes. "Maintaining a Nuisance", I think the term is. Or perhaps they should have owners sign a release, promising not to operate or store the vehicle in any zip code that insurance companies deem high risk.

I kinda agree! Forcing the customer to sign a car theft waiver that other car companies do not would solve the problem somewhat. It informs them so that they can use their money on a different vehicle.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#292

Post by krisoft »

prottog wrote: post #161
krisoft wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You prevent theft by putting theives in jail. This is such an incredible naive view of the world. Whether or not crimes are committed is a complicated interplay of cost/benefit. You say that the city is acting as if thieves are some force of nature. And to a certain extent they are. If it is easy enough to commit a crime and the reward is high enough a crime will be committed. As an example if you leave gold bars l…

> As an example if you leave gold bars littered on your front yard people will pick them up. No amount of "putting thieves in jail" will save you. Of course there is an amount of "putting thieves in jail" which will save you; once all the thieves are in jail, the remainder of the populace would mind their own business and walk past the gold bars. If your thesis is that literally everyone would steal those gold bars,…

> once all the thieves are in jail, the remainder of the populace would mind their own business and walk past the gold bars

Perhaps. I posit that you are going to run out of one of these things sooner than you are going to run out of thieves though: gold bars, patience of police to hunt down your stolen gold bars, places in prison.

You are going to run out of gold bars because if there is a stash of them unsecured there will be some thieves who either by sheer luck, or by being better at their job than the police at theirs will succesfully get away with stealing them.

You are going to run out of police patience by one of two ways: either immediately, once they hear that your unsecured gold bars were just laying in your front garden. In which case they take your report and chuck it in a drawer to forget about it. Or if you are politically well connected they will try to persuade you to secure them better. If you are literally their king and they can’t convince you to store the gold better they might try to protect it by posting a policeman next to it

And then finnaly if you have so much money that replenishing the stolen gold is not a problem, and you have so much political power that the police is not able to change your storage practices then that is when you are going to run out of space in your prisons.

> If your thesis is that literally everyone would steal those gold bars

Not at all. But it doesn’t need to be. My thesis is that there would be enough people who would try that it overwhelms your police force destined to throw thieves in prison.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#293

Post by mc32 »

jolux wrote: post #279
prmoustache wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently incarceration and death penalty do not really work as a deterrent in this country. Is it because most of the violent crimes are related to drug addiction?

The US prison system is violent and brutal, which begets a high recidivism rate. In my opinion this is because American culture tends to confuse retribution for justice but opinions vary I'm sure.

In most countries the prison system is unpleasant, including the UK, Italy, Spain, Japan, Ukraine, Mexico, etc. In addition the justice/legal systems slightly favor the prosecution.

Salvador was overrun with gang violence, a new government came in, rounded up the gangsters and crime has gone down. On balance the population of Salvador is better off.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#294

Post by l33t233372 »

endisneigh wrote: post #68
yccs27 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no relationship. I can take apart my front door including the lock without a problem, and it is still secure. Security is a property of the locked state, repairability a property of the unlocked state.

no it is not. the fact that you can take apart your front door makes it inherently easier to get into your house vs. a door that could not be disassembled.

I’m wondering if you can explicitly say what about including an immobilizer in the north American market inherently makes those vehicles less repairable than their immobilizer-equipped counterparts in other markets.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#295

Post by cscurmudgeon »

Convolutional wrote: post #185

I should point out to those not from the US that this is how Americans view the US. There is a lot of crime, the government and NGOs are on the side of the criminals etc. It is up voted to the top as well, with agreement in the replies, this is how Americans view the US. The US incarcerates more people than China, despite China having more than four times as many people, but the view obviously is the incarceration ra…

1. Two things can be true. The US imprisons a lot and the US doesn't imprison the right folks.

2. Comparison with China is not accurate. a) Can't trust numbers from China and b) China has a much more rigid social structure and rules and the population has been beaten in submission (e.g. make pie Tiananmen square). Imagine a visa system that prevents folks from California from migrating to Texas (we are even for allowing mass migration from outside).

Even Politifact rates such comparisons false https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/dec/16/matthew-co...

It is better looking at a local level. And here China exceeds the US. https://apnews.com/article/china-prisons-uyghurs-religion-0d...

3) If this is really not a problem with Baltimore (as you imply), other locations with Kias and Hyundias should also be suing them. As far as I know, they are also sold in China but don't have these issues.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#296

Post by wing-_-nuts »

swearwolf wrote: post #223
Convolutional wrote: post #185

I should point out to those not from the US that this is how Americans view the US. There is a lot of crime, the government and NGOs are on the side of the criminals etc. It is up voted to the top as well, with agreement in the replies, this is how Americans view the US. The US incarcerates more people than China, despite China having more than four times as many people, but the view obviously is the incarceration ra…

1.) Though this is becoming an increasingly popular viewpoint in many of the American cities that are experiencing these problems right now, it’s far from universally held. 2.) The U.S. is not a monolith, so looking at the prison population of the United States as a whole doesn’t tell you about what’s going on in an individual state or city. 3.) The number of people incarcerated has a long tail. In the U.S. in partic…

I consider myself a liberal, but while I think pretty much all drug possession charges should be dropped and decriminalized, violent crime? Robbery? Those folks should absolutely be in jail. I don't care if we have to build tent cities to incarcerate them. You hurt someone intentionally, you should not be breathing free air for a while.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#297

Post by plagiarist »

Natsu wrote: post #273
plagiarist wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a Schwinn-branded bicycle lock is so easily broken that the majority of thefts are from opening those locks, why not?

There will always be a most popular car to steal as long as there are car thefts. Maybe the problem is the thieves?

If it were possible for two problems to exist at the same time, I'd say one problem is a product defect reducing the barrier of entry so low that car theft is accessible to bored teenagers.

But of course you are right, only one problem can ever exist and the problem is car thieves.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#298

Post by leothecool »

JPKab wrote: post #267
Convolutional wrote: post #185

I should point out to those not from the US that this is how Americans view the US. There is a lot of crime, the government and NGOs are on the side of the criminals etc. It is up voted to the top as well, with agreement in the replies, this is how Americans view the US. The US incarcerates more people than China, despite China having more than four times as many people, but the view obviously is the incarceration ra…

> So those outside the US can get insights into what the US is and how it thinks from threads like this. No, everyone outside of your head can get insights into your willingness to cherrypick a single comment and extrapolate to fit your pessimistic, hyper-critical mental model. It's also interesting how you talk about incarceration rates independently of crime rates, and act as if the US is prosecuting and incarcerat…

> the US is prosecuting and incarcerating broad swathes of innocent people.

There's about half a million people in jail right now who haven't been convicted of a crime. Some of them are innocent, for sure.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#299

Post by h11h »

pySSK wrote: post #209
lordloki wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has literal concentration camps and prisoner organ harvesting. I don't think your comparison means much.

[flagged]

What exactly are you talking about regarding the "organ harvesting thing"? It's undeniable that it happened. In 2014 China promised to stop doing it. Here's an article from Chinese state media:

> China's long-term dependence on executed prisoners as organ donors will end at the start of next year, according to a high-ranking official.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2014-12/05/content_190287...

My understanding is the debates are over whether or not it still happens and to what extent political prisoners (particularly Falun Gong members) were victims.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#300

Post by infamouscow »

carabiner wrote: post #224
pySSK wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The US has very similar camps in the form of forced labor (i.e. slavery) by prisoners. These slaves have built products in the US that many of us have used, including clothes and office furniture. They make 63 cents per hour - make no mistake, they are slaves .

[flagged]
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