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Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

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Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#131

Post by Fatnino »

harimau777 wrote: post #84
hgsgm wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are these standards written somewhere? If it's required, it should be documented.

I'm not a lawyer, but as I understand it, this sort of thing is generally based on a reasonable person standard. I.e. would a reasonable person assume that if their car requires a key to start, then it cannot be started with something as trivial as a USB key?

I keep hearing this vague claim that the cars can be started with a usb key. How does this work? Is there a usb port that reads some secret file off the USB key? Is it just the USB plug shape that fits somewhere in the car that forces it to turn on?

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#132

Post by hinkley »

I've had my eye on their new electric platform for a while and stuff like this is not helping me pull the trigger.

I'm also still a little disappointed that the MSRP came out about 10% higher than the estimates. We're getting into too much money for a car there.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#133

Post by bombcar »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #119
arein3 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are a thief

It's ridiculously easy for anyone to steal. If I buy a door I expect the lock to work, that's the value doors provide. If it turns out that the lock actually does nothing I would consider myself defrauded by the door manufacturer unless they specifically told me that the lock doesn't work.

Go watch the LockPickingLawyer - some of it is skill, but there's a lot of product out there that's painfully easy to bypass.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#134

Post by LgWoodenBadger »

shagie wrote: post #44
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right? Why don’t we all have our catalytic converters digitally paired with the Engine Control Unit iPhone-style? Is it the manufacturer’s fault for not doing that? Heck, just like an iPhone, let’s have all parts on a car from the headlamps to the door handles to the mirrors digitally paired together. That would stop theft, and any car maker who doesn’t do it is encouraging theft.

That doesn't quite follow as the catalytic converter is melted down for its metals rather than used as is. As to "all the parts on a car paired" - there is VIN etching. https://www.allstate.com/resources/allstate/attachments/tool... The audio system has some semblance of paring. Though with he KIA, this is more often dealing with use (e.g. joy riding) of the car rather than reselling it.

Melted down? More likely they're sold to questionable "remanufacturers"

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#135

Post by henryfjordan »

endisneigh wrote: post #60
digdugdirk wrote: post #57

People are commenting on this with a fundamental lack of understanding of a car's ignition system. This design truly is flawed. Traditionally, the immobilizer in an ignition system is physically tied to the steering column. Basically, you'd need to remove the steering column (the physical pipe that goes between your steering wheel and the front steering rack) in order to remove the part. If you want to defeat that im…

flawed or not, the onus is not on Kia. ultimately baltimore is suing them because of the spike in car thefts, not because of the flawed design. presumably if baltimore had no thieves, there would be no thefts irrespective of the design. so in effect baltimore is suing kia becuase their cars are getting stolen which is ridiculous. i don't know how anyone can defend this. this would be like baltimore suing banks for al…

You cannot make something that you know will cause a nuisance. You cannot, for instance, sell fireworks only between 1-3am in the middle of a neighborhood and act surprised when the neighbors are mad at you because kids are setting them off all night.

It was absolutely predictable that these cars would be stolen and that the police would have to deal with the fallout. Just because there's no explicit law does not mean that Kia doesn't know better. Kia needs to pay for that.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#136

Post by [deleted] »

giantg2 wrote: post #54
aardvarkr wrote: post #8

Lots of comments that didn’t read the article so here’s a good excerpt on why there’s a lawsuit. Baltimore’s lawsuit says the companies “failed to keep up with industry standards,” and claim it was a result of business decisions made to reduce costs and boost profits “notwithstanding decades of academic literature and research supporting the deterrent effects” of anti-theft technology. “The dramatically increased rat…

“The dramatically increased rate of Hyundai and Kia theft in Baltimore has required city and police resources that would not have been needed but for Hyundai and Kia’s deliberate failures,” I'd like to see the data here. Is there any indication that the crime wouldn't be present in other areas of life? Would the people committing these crimes be law-abiding citizens if not for the temptation of these cars being easie…

[deleted]

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#137

Post by linksnapzz »

krisoft wrote: post #104
alexb_ wrote: post #5

How is it Hyundai's fault that people steal cars? It's acting as if theives are some force of nature that we can't control or something. You prevent theft by putting theives in jail. It's not complicated.

> You prevent theft by putting theives in jail. This is such an incredible naive view of the world. Whether or not crimes are committed is a complicated interplay of cost/benefit. You say that the city is acting as if thieves are some force of nature. And to a certain extent they are. If it is easy enough to commit a crime and the reward is high enough a crime will be committed. As an example if you leave gold bars l…

I notice that jewelers and goldsmiths in Riyadh have nowhere near the level of secure access controls, nor the type and amount of reinforced display cases that you see in Chicago or NYC. Likewise, I can leave a $4000 macbook on a table in a bar in the cheapest neighborhood in Saitama, and not have it walk off if I step outside for a smoke.

Why do you suppose this is?

What is happening there, that isn't happening in Baltimore?

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#138

Post by joseph_grobbles »

endisneigh wrote: post #60
digdugdirk wrote: post #57

People are commenting on this with a fundamental lack of understanding of a car's ignition system. This design truly is flawed. Traditionally, the immobilizer in an ignition system is physically tied to the steering column. Basically, you'd need to remove the steering column (the physical pipe that goes between your steering wheel and the front steering rack) in order to remove the part. If you want to defeat that im…

flawed or not, the onus is not on Kia. ultimately baltimore is suing them because of the spike in car thefts, not because of the flawed design. presumably if baltimore had no thieves, there would be no thefts irrespective of the design. so in effect baltimore is suing kia becuase their cars are getting stolen which is ridiculous. i don't know how anyone can defend this. this would be like baltimore suing banks for al…

[dead]

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#139

Post by ravensfan69 »

I live in Baltimore, in a pretty "good" part of town where most of the young professionals and Hopkins hospital staff live. I know 4 different people who've had cars stolen in the past 24 months. In 3 of these cases the perpetrators were teenagers, and in 2 of these cases they brandished guns. Only one of these thefts were Hyundai/Kia-related, and the thief punched my buddy in the face during the theft.

Many others I know have had cars broken into, homes broken into, tons of packages stolen, property vandalized, etc. Basically any form of property crime you can imagine.

The idea that Hyundai or Kia are somehow culpable for these this extreme social dysfunction is absolutely farcical. Vagrants and criminals are kept like livestock by the local government and a class of parasitic NGOs- left to terrorize normal law-abiding citizens who barely have a legal recourse to violence should one of these incidents go sideways.

It would take Ra's al Ghul to resolve the problems of this city

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#140

Post by local_crmdgeon »

The City of Baltimore has repeatedly demonstrated that they will do anything besides try to change the behavior of the population. It's a failed city, and luckily the model is being exported to places like SF, LA, and DC.

Why should we punish people who repeatedly commit crime anyway? Fuck it, why do anything? Let's sue Kia instead, maybe we can get a payday

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