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Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

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Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#111

Post by giantg2 »

aardvarkr wrote: post #72
giantg2 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“The dramatically increased rate of Hyundai and Kia theft in Baltimore has required city and police resources that would not have been needed but for Hyundai and Kia’s deliberate failures,” I'd like to see the data here. Is there any indication that the crime wouldn't be present in other areas of life? Would the people committing these crimes be law-abiding citizens if not for the temptation of these cars being easie…

Here’s the link that I posted above with data showing the before and after. It’s quite stark just how big of a spike there has been in theft. https://usafacts.org/data-projects/car-thefts

Not exactly the data I was looking for. This is very niche and not from a more comprehensive level. However, the city level data seems to show that some cities are not seeing a higher spike, but others are. Without any real analysis, this seems to indicate that there are other factors at play than simply Kias being easier to steal.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#112

Post by [deleted] »

itsoktocry wrote: post #24
hardware2win wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider reading the article The concerns are valid >Certain Kia or Hyundai models can be stolen using a screwdriver and a USB charging cord. >Cleveland, St. Louis and Seattle are among the other cities that started suing the the car companies earlier this year. Baltimore’s lawsuit says the companies “failed to keep up with industry standards,” and claim it was a result of business decisions made to reduce costs and…

> “Hyundai and Kia’s decision to put cost savings and profits over public safety has had significant consequences for Baltimore and its residents..." Hyundai has some of the safest , most efficient small cars on the road, for great prices. I'd say these things are a net positive to "public safety" over all.

[deleted]

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#113

Post by wslh »

arein3 wrote: post #59
wslh wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article sounds like if you leave the door open you should assume anybody will enter and steal you. This is reversing the victim to the victimary. In a sexist way would be similar that you are being raped because you wear some specific clothes. Or you are hacked because you don't apply a patch.

People downvoting are so used to scummy people that they think it's the norm. In other societies crime is not normal, and "teenagers" have two braincells to understand that a thief is a repugnant person and that the consequences are not worth it.

Nice experiment here in HN, it gives us information about a specific bias.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#114

Post by wslh »

hardware2win wrote: post #15
wslh wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article sounds like if you leave the door open you should assume anybody will enter and steal you. This is reversing the victim to the victimary. In a sexist way would be similar that you are being raped because you wear some specific clothes. Or you are hacked because you don't apply a patch.

Lets do not jump into emotional arguments Car makers should make their cars as hard as reasonably possible to steal. If dumb ass tenager can do that, the it is a mess

In my country, thieves removes your wheels, break your window, etc. Any electronic or hacker approach is very advanced.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#115

Post by krisoft »

endisneigh wrote: post #56
taffronaut wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't follow the reasoning that inherently easily repairable cars are easily stolen. Cars have shipped for decades with steering and in some cases transmission locks. These required physical key and programmed fob to be present in order to start and drive. Security was down to the quality of the engineering of those components. I don't see how it hampered modification to or ability to repair the rest of the car.

you disagree that a car that's more reparable is more easily stolen? imagine a car with screws on the door to be swapped, and another car without them. you don't think the car with the screws would be easier to steal?

> you disagree that a car that's more reparable is more easily stolen?

Yes,I do.

> imagine a car with screws on the door to be swapped, and another car without them. you don't think the car with the screws would be easier to steal?

I imagined that. Every car door I have ever interacted with had the screws on the hinges such that you could only access them with the door open. You could swap all of them. This is not a particularly good example you choose I am afraid.

You can design cars which are hard to repair and easy to steal, or one which is easy to repair and hard to steal.

Thing is nobody is asking Kia to do something unprecedented. All people are asking to be about as safe from stealing as cars from other manufacturers are.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#116

Post by arein3 »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #97
arein3 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is hyundai responsible for that? South corea is full of hyundais and there's no such problem there. Maybe the root cause of stealing is different?

They designed a car that is ridiculously easy to steal.

If you are a thief

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#117

Post by endisneigh »

krisoft wrote: post #115
endisneigh wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you disagree that a car that's more reparable is more easily stolen? imagine a car with screws on the door to be swapped, and another car without them. you don't think the car with the screws would be easier to steal?

> you disagree that a car that's more reparable is more easily stolen? Yes,I do. > imagine a car with screws on the door to be swapped, and another car without them. you don't think the car with the screws would be easier to steal? I imagined that. Every car door I have ever interacted with had the screws on the hinges such that you could only access them with the door open. You could swap all of them. This is not a…

I don't know what to tell ya then. clearly and obviously, a door that can be taken off, and thus is more easily repaired, could be stolen easier than one that is not (e.g. door is welded after being attached to the car). if you disagree with that then we have to agree to disagree.

> Thing is nobody is asking Kia to do something unprecedented. All people are asking to be about as safe from stealing as cars from other manufacturers are.

how about you just not buy kia. they'll figure it out. why people want to involve the government in everything is just beyond me.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#118

Post by dang »

nathanaldensr wrote: post #2

[flagged]

Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait, especially of the ideological battle variety? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. This has been a problem for a while, and we eventually have to ban accounts that keep doing this kind of thing.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33014228 (Sept 2022)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30086559 (Jan 2022)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19830614 (May 2019)

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#119

Post by HDThoreaun »

arein3 wrote: post #116
HDThoreaun wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They designed a car that is ridiculously easy to steal.

If you are a thief

It's ridiculously easy for anyone to steal. If I buy a door I expect the lock to work, that's the value doors provide. If it turns out that the lock actually does nothing I would consider myself defrauded by the door manufacturer unless they specifically told me that the lock doesn't work.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#120

Post by bombcar »

aardvarkr wrote: post #91
endisneigh wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

flawed or not, the onus is not on Kia. ultimately baltimore is suing them because of the spike in car thefts, not because of the flawed design. presumably if baltimore had no thieves, there would be no thefts irrespective of the design. so in effect baltimore is suing kia becuase their cars are getting stolen which is ridiculous. i don't know how anyone can defend this. this would be like baltimore suing banks for al…

Here’s a better analogy - imagine the atm manufacturer wanted to save money so they built a machine with a lock that could be pried off with a screwdriver instead of integrating security features inside the machine. This ATM would be about as trivially easy to break into as stealing a Kia/Hyundai is. Would the bank be right to pursue legal damages against the atm manufacturer for negligence?

The bank is the customer in that case, and you could argue that they could sue, based on "assumptions about contract" or whatever.

Baltimore didn't buy these cars.

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