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Animals Are Dying in Droves. What Are They Telling Us?

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Re: Animals Are Dying in Droves. What Are They Telling Us?

#71

I am doing my part by deciding not to have kids: imagine the incredible amount of resources I just saved with my decision. Thousands of chickens, dozens of cows, pounds and pounds of fertilizers, etc. All this without causing any pain or suffering.

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Re: Animals Are Dying in Droves. What Are They Telling Us?

#72
post #7

One of the leading reasons why we're in such deep mess are our systems of food production, esp. animal agriculture (75% of agriculture lands, uses more land than forests) & fishing. - The majority of deforestation (particularly in the Amazon), is driven by livestock farming. By reducing demand for animal products, we could slow or even reverse the trend of habitat destruction, thus preserving biodiversity. - Growing…

The real difference will be made by abolishing Europe's cities and returning that entire continent to Nature. All the forests and animals should be restored and the cities razed. Extant emissions from the people there dwarf the Amazon's deforestation so it's a much better fix.

Whatever biodiversity (and therefore whatever resilience) was lost by the destruction of Europe's forests is gone forever. There are important species in the Amazon that can still be saved.

Re: Animals Are Dying in Droves. What Are They Telling Us?

#73
post #7

One of the leading reasons why we're in such deep mess are our systems of food production, esp. animal agriculture (75% of agriculture lands, uses more land than forests) & fishing. - The majority of deforestation (particularly in the Amazon), is driven by livestock farming. By reducing demand for animal products, we could slow or even reverse the trend of habitat destruction, thus preserving biodiversity. - Growing…

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Re: Animals Are Dying in Droves. What Are They Telling Us?

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's weird. I grew up in a big house and my parents had plenty of cars, meat and travel, but I wasn't particularly happy. I'm happier now in my small apartment. I don't really understand how a big house will make you happy. Really, doing electronics is more fun in a hacker space than at home, and you can always go to a park.

That's nice that a very spartan lifestyle is good for you. The house doesn't make me happy. Not hearing my neighbors music blasting through the floor at 2am makes me happy. Not hearing my neighbors screaming at each other every day makes me happy Being able to paint my walls any color I want makes me happy. Having a plot of land I can dig up and plant stuff on or build a workshop on makes me happy. Having a place tha…

Aha, sorry for my mistake. I didn't mean "apartment" to mean that you have to rent.

Re: Animals Are Dying in Droves. What Are They Telling Us?

#75

I am doing my part by deciding not to have kids: imagine the incredible amount of resources I just saved with my decision. Thousands of chickens, dozens of cows, pounds and pounds of fertilizers, etc. All this without causing any pain or suffering.

Me too, and for the same reason. But I don't think an air of solemn responsibility to the environment is the right way to frame it.

I hope you're having a great time in a way that others (especially children) can see and emulate. I hope you're enjoying projects that will be appreciated after you're dead, especially if they're the sort that people with kids don't have time for.

If we care about the children of the future, we've got to make this look good for its own sake.

Re: Animals Are Dying in Droves. What Are They Telling Us?

#76
post #50
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. - somebody

Gandhi I think

I looked it up. Actually it was by someone I’ve never heard of, but Ghandi said something similar (just way more long-winded).

Ghandi also started a massive political movement so I think he did a lot of doing in between his being.

Re: Animals Are Dying in Droves. What Are They Telling Us?

#77

Does anyone have a realistic comment that isn’t some Malthusian doomerism? There must be a solution to this problem besides drastically curtailing people’s lifestyle, even if it involves technologies that aren’t quite here yet like genetic engineering, space travel and fusion power.

These comments are realistic because that's how bad the situation has gotten. Decades ago there were solutions because we would have had more time. But the warnings by the experts were willfully ignored. Now we're here. Have fun while you can.

Re: Animals Are Dying in Droves. What Are They Telling Us?

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's nice that a very spartan lifestyle is good for you. The house doesn't make me happy. Not hearing my neighbors music blasting through the floor at 2am makes me happy. Not hearing my neighbors screaming at each other every day makes me happy Being able to paint my walls any color I want makes me happy. Having a plot of land I can dig up and plant stuff on or build a workshop on makes me happy. Having a place tha…

Aha, sorry for my mistake. I didn't mean "apartment" to mean that you have to rent.

Funny enough, owning the apartment doesn't actually fix all of the other problems of living in an apartment.

I don't want every facet of my life outside of my home to be public and shared. I want a private yard, not a communal park and garden. I want a private shop, not a public maker space. I want peace and quiet and a bit of distance from my neighbors, not shared walls.

Because I've lived the apartment life and it honestly did make me want to kill myself. I don't know how people just live like that.

Re: Animals Are Dying in Droves. What Are They Telling Us?

#79
post #36

What's the baseline though? My understanding is that wild animals have always died in droves, which is why the make a ton of offspring reproductive strategy is so popular. That's not to downplay the impact of habitat loss and other factors, but if say for example 40% of bird randomly get themselves killed every year then the marginal increase in deaths from wind power looks very different than if they don't.

I also wonder how much of this is due to better measurement and tracking and is an actual aberration. I fundamentally believe it is an aberration but improved measurement has to account for some degree of the effect.
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