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Animals Are Dying in Droves. What Are They Telling Us?

newrepublic.com

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Re: Animals Are Dying in Droves. What Are They Telling Us?

#41

Post by mistrial9 »

multiple unrelated and extreme statements in response here, are telling of the psychological overwhelm individuals feel when seeing this news. There are several angles to respond to, but lets try this one

This is not an individual choice problem, so neither people who live in tiny apartments and don't drive NOR people who compete relentlessly to have and use more than others, are the topic.

Science of measurement and analysis has advanced faster in the last thirty years than the 300,000 years before it. Yet, we have quite a lot of science on say, body burden "forever" chemicals, the accumulative destruction of pesticides or the dust of tires from highways. The economic engines associated with making consumer products are not relenting their favorable economic niches. So this is a political problem.

The kind of "stall and crawl" solutions produce some short-term stability, but obviously, it is not making a significant dent. Secondly, frenzied all-out protest and disruption rarely make positive change over time in themselves, so "complete teardown" kinds of solutions are also not the thing.

Media mechanisms are part of political change, but this YNews place (high tech with ads) seems like it has over-stimulated media, and filled it with short-sighted content.

The training wheels for the species are offically "Off" now.

Re: Animals Are Dying in Droves. What Are They Telling Us?

#42

Post by 0xBombadilo »

deanmoriarty wrote: post #13

I am doing my part by deciding not to have kids: imagine the incredible amount of resources I just saved with my decision. Thousands of chickens, dozens of cows, pounds and pounds of fertilizers, etc. All this without causing any pain or suffering.

[flagged]

Re: Animals Are Dying in Droves. What Are They Telling Us?

#43

Post by MadSudaca »

myshpa wrote: post #7

One of the leading reasons why we're in such deep mess are our systems of food production, esp. animal agriculture (75% of agriculture lands, uses more land than forests) & fishing. - The majority of deforestation (particularly in the Amazon), is driven by livestock farming. By reducing demand for animal products, we could slow or even reverse the trend of habitat destruction, thus preserving biodiversity. - Growing…

> Growing plants to feed animals and then consuming those animals is an inefficient way of obtaining calories and nutrients. Shifting to a plant-based diet would allow us to feed more people with less land, reducing the pressure on wild habitats.

Regarding this point, it's important to remember that animals have the ability to transform materials we can't get any sustenance from, because they're not edible, into food. To get the idea, think how pigs have been historically such a popular food in many countries. They would basically eat anything, the owners get the pig fat, then they eat the pig.

Another thing to remember is that proteins coming from vegetables are low quality compared to their animal counterparts. For the great majority of the world population a vegan diet is inaccessible. You simply don't get all the nutrients you need from vegetables alone. Friends who maintain a vegan diet for ideological reasons have to supplement it with a heavy dose of pills and other compounds lest they have have problem maintaining their energy levels, even if they have calorie rich diets.

Re: Animals Are Dying in Droves. What Are They Telling Us?

#44

Post by gs17 »

bee_rider wrote: post #25
bluefirebrand wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would rather humanity have a bloody war that wipes out 90% of us than live the miserable life you have described. My life does not fit within walking distance of a 110m2 box.

You would rather accept a 90% chance of death for yourself and everyone you love, than live in a small apartment?

Not even a small apartment, I share a ~110 sq m apartment now (with a sizable chunk wasted for stairs) and it's more than enough.

Re: Animals Are Dying in Droves. What Are They Telling Us?

#45

Post by Iwan-Zotow »

throwaway1777 wrote: post #23

Does anyone have a realistic comment that isn’t some Malthusian doomerism? There must be a solution to this problem besides drastically curtailing people’s lifestyle, even if it involves technologies that aren’t quite here yet like genetic engineering, space travel and fusion power.

what is the solution to the dying biosphere? Kill all humans would be one, I guess

Re: Animals Are Dying in Droves. What Are They Telling Us?

#46

Post by ethanbond »

throwaway1777 wrote: post #23

Does anyone have a realistic comment that isn’t some Malthusian doomerism? There must be a solution to this problem besides drastically curtailing people’s lifestyle, even if it involves technologies that aren’t quite here yet like genetic engineering, space travel and fusion power.

Why "must" there be a solution like that?

It's wild how when it comes to the biggest problems, people will say "let's not be so emotional about this" and then produce suggestions borne exclusively of their emotional coping mechanism.

Re: Animals Are Dying in Droves. What Are They Telling Us?

#47

Post by User23 »

jebarker wrote: post #3
darkwraithcov wrote: post #2

There’s a mass extinction happening and no one seems to care. We may see a complete collapse of the ecosystem in the next 30 years.

I think lots of people care but nobody knows what to do.

There are essentially three not entirely disjoint options. 1) Sacrifice yourself for the good of the whole. 2) Take advantage of those who sacrifice themselves for the good of the whole. 3) Nobody sacrifices and it's thunderdome time and the losers starve.

Re: Animals Are Dying in Droves. What Are They Telling Us?

#48

Post by AlexandrB »

myshpa wrote: post #7

One of the leading reasons why we're in such deep mess are our systems of food production, esp. animal agriculture (75% of agriculture lands, uses more land than forests) & fishing. - The majority of deforestation (particularly in the Amazon), is driven by livestock farming. By reducing demand for animal products, we could slow or even reverse the trend of habitat destruction, thus preserving biodiversity. - Growing…

I think you're absolutely right, but this message is greeted with open hostility in many parts of the internet. Availability of cheap meat is almost seen as a god-given right in developed countries.

Re: Animals Are Dying in Droves. What Are They Telling Us?

#49

Post by dmbche »

bee_rider wrote: post #12
timthelion wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that if everyone gave up air travel, individual automobile transport, and meat and dairy and lived in a max 110m2 apartment you could say that. But it seems that there are a lot of people who simply don't care.

I already live in a tiny apartment and take the bus to work, so clearly my individual contribution didn’t fix the problem. I don’t know how to make everyone do that, so, I still don’t know what to do.

Yeah - individual changes will never change anything - I think the discussion has been poisonned, and we are blind to the actual solutions, which all seem unthinkable even though they are self evident

Re: Animals Are Dying in Droves. What Are They Telling Us?

#50

Post by dmbche »

myshpa wrote: post #22
bee_rider wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I already live in a tiny apartment and take the bus to work, so clearly my individual contribution didn’t fix the problem. I don’t know how to make everyone do that, so, I still don’t know what to do.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. - somebody

Gandhi I think
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