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Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

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Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#71

Post by taffronaut »

alexb_ wrote: post #5

How is it Hyundai's fault that people steal cars? It's acting as if theives are some force of nature that we can't control or something. You prevent theft by putting theives in jail. It's not complicated.

It's Hyundai's fault that it's trivially easy to steal their cars. Also, you may prevent subsequent thefts by putting a particular thief in jail, but not the first one they commit. Hyundai make the jail route less valuable because the learning curve to steal Hyundai cars is so shallow that there can be a constant stream of new thieves committing their first theft.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#72

Post by aardvarkr »

giantg2 wrote: post #54
aardvarkr wrote: post #8

Lots of comments that didn’t read the article so here’s a good excerpt on why there’s a lawsuit. Baltimore’s lawsuit says the companies “failed to keep up with industry standards,” and claim it was a result of business decisions made to reduce costs and boost profits “notwithstanding decades of academic literature and research supporting the deterrent effects” of anti-theft technology. “The dramatically increased rat…

“The dramatically increased rate of Hyundai and Kia theft in Baltimore has required city and police resources that would not have been needed but for Hyundai and Kia’s deliberate failures,” I'd like to see the data here. Is there any indication that the crime wouldn't be present in other areas of life? Would the people committing these crimes be law-abiding citizens if not for the temptation of these cars being easie…

Here’s the link that I posted above with data showing the before and after. It’s quite stark just how big of a spike there has been in theft. https://usafacts.org/data-projects/car-thefts

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#73

Post by capableweb »

alexb_ wrote: post #5

How is it Hyundai's fault that people steal cars? It's acting as if theives are some force of nature that we can't control or something. You prevent theft by putting theives in jail. It's not complicated.

> You prevent theft by putting theives in jail. It's not complicated.

Damn you right, it's so simple, why didn't they thought of just putting the thieves in jail?!

Also, seems like this whole "people stealing cars" thing doesn't just happen in Baltimore. What if putting the thieves in jail could work in other cities too? Maybe even internationally?

You could be on to something really big here, I hope people from Baltimore government comes across your comment.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#74

Post by lcw »

hgsgm wrote: post #36
aardvarkr wrote: post #8

Lots of comments that didn’t read the article so here’s a good excerpt on why there’s a lawsuit. Baltimore’s lawsuit says the companies “failed to keep up with industry standards,” and claim it was a result of business decisions made to reduce costs and boost profits “notwithstanding decades of academic literature and research supporting the deterrent effects” of anti-theft technology. “The dramatically increased rat…

Are these standards written somewhere? If it's required, it should be documented.

The point of the lawsuit seems to be to create case law that would influence standards and/or a requirements for automotive security features.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#75

Post by klodolph »

wslh wrote: post #10
hardware2win wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider reading the article The concerns are valid >Certain Kia or Hyundai models can be stolen using a screwdriver and a USB charging cord. >Cleveland, St. Louis and Seattle are among the other cities that started suing the the car companies earlier this year. Baltimore’s lawsuit says the companies “failed to keep up with industry standards,” and claim it was a result of business decisions made to reduce costs and…

The article sounds like if you leave the door open you should assume anybody will enter and steal you. This is reversing the victim to the victimary. In a sexist way would be similar that you are being raped because you wear some specific clothes. Or you are hacked because you don't apply a patch.

Are you reading the same article? The city is going after Kia, not the car owners. Kia is making defective cars; people are buying them; the city is going after Kia.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#76

Post by klodolph »

endisneigh wrote: post #49
klodolph wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LockPickingLawyer is highly skilled, and can defeat locks that most others can’t. This is like selling one of those old Kryptonite locks that could be defeated with a Bic pen. At that point, the lock is truly defective, and should be pulled from the market. Your lock should require something more than a readily-available, vaguely key-shaped object to operate—so if you can operate the lock with a Bic pen (like the old…

i deeply disagree with this line of thought. why is the onus on the manufacturer here, instead of going after the thieves?

> why is the onus on the manufacturer here, instead of going after the thieves?

This is a false dilemma. You can go after both.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#77

Post by [deleted] »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #4

Imagine if a city sued homeowners because it’s their fault for calling the police after a break-in, because they used a deadbolt that failed the LockPickingLawyer. This is about equally as sane. Yes, yes, I know that Hyundai and Kia vehicles are easy pickings, but they talk as though “those vehicles are easy to steal, so those teenagers, they just felt so compelled to…” Nobody forces somebody to steal a car. If anti-…

[deleted]

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#78

Post by bastawhiz »

hgsgm wrote: post #33

Government should mandate product standards before suing over them. Government should thank Kia for making criminals easier to spot. Government should raise fees for people who buy substandard cars and then waste city resources dealing with their trash. Car owners could sue Kia for selling defective cars. Insurance companies should charge far more for Kias. Government should mandate insurance cost disclosures as part…

> Car owners could sue Kia for selling defective cars.

> Insurance companies should charge far more for Kias.

Great, someone made the unknowing mistake of buying one of these defective cars before it was known they are easily stolen. Now their insurance goes up and they have to sue the manufacturer. How many people actually have the money to deal with that? Suing the car company is expensive. And if I don't have the cash to buy another car (and the trade in value of the one I have has crashed) I'm just stuck paying increased insurance costs. And fees from the city, apparently.

This isn't the economic motivation you think it is, it's just pushing the burden onto the owners who had no idea what they were getting themselves into.

What you've done is proposed a bunch of complicated rules that burden consumers and dealers to do everything possible to prevent people from buying these cars, all so you can avoid just having the manufacturer do a recall. The government can simply say that the cars lack safety features, force a recall, and move on. Cut out all the consumer-unfriendly bureaucracy.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#79

Post by yccs27 »

endisneigh wrote: post #49
klodolph wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LockPickingLawyer is highly skilled, and can defeat locks that most others can’t. This is like selling one of those old Kryptonite locks that could be defeated with a Bic pen. At that point, the lock is truly defective, and should be pulled from the market. Your lock should require something more than a readily-available, vaguely key-shaped object to operate—so if you can operate the lock with a Bic pen (like the old…

i deeply disagree with this line of thought. why is the onus on the manufacturer here, instead of going after the thieves?

That is just a false dichotomy. Of course the thieves are at fault, but the manufacturer is also liable because they failed to ensure even the most basic degree of security.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#80

Post by themaninthedark »

ericmcer wrote: post #25
hardware2win wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider reading the article The concerns are valid >Certain Kia or Hyundai models can be stolen using a screwdriver and a USB charging cord. >Cleveland, St. Louis and Seattle are among the other cities that started suing the the car companies earlier this year. Baltimore’s lawsuit says the companies “failed to keep up with industry standards,” and claim it was a result of business decisions made to reduce costs and…

Are the spikes of car thefts similar across all cities? Every large city has Kia and Hyundais, you would think this would be a nationwide phenomenon.

I think it is a mistake to look at all cities, it should be looked at nationwide though.

By only looking at cities you are pulling in a large number of other policies and effects that only cities may have implemented.

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