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Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts
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Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts
#52[flagged]
If they are not following industry standards on securing the car, then yes the car manufacturers should be liable.
Buyer beware? To argue on behalf of the Koreans, the cars didn't come with immobilizers, which is perfectly legal in the US, whereas in the EU it's a requirement. Maybe Baltimore should be suing whichever agency it is that permits that.
I wonder if an analogy can be made with airbags, of course airbags are well-advertised and sane buyers would avoid cars without them, how about seat-belt pretensioners instead?
Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts
#53How is it Hyundai's fault that people steal cars? It's acting as if theives are some force of nature that we can't control or something. You prevent theft by putting theives in jail. It's not complicated.
Yes they are put in jail. But who bears the cost of extra policing, court time, jail space? The city does. So the city is seeking reparation from the cost incurred.
The perpetrator is responsible for that cost.
If Kia is liable for inducing crime, government should be similarly liable for allowing crime; as preventing it is their main job.
Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts
#54Lots of comments that didn’t read the article so here’s a good excerpt on why there’s a lawsuit. Baltimore’s lawsuit says the companies “failed to keep up with industry standards,” and claim it was a result of business decisions made to reduce costs and boost profits “notwithstanding decades of academic literature and research supporting the deterrent effects” of anti-theft technology. “The dramatically increased rat…
“The dramatically increased rate of Hyundai and Kia theft in Baltimore has required city and police resources that would not have been needed but for Hyundai and Kia’s deliberate failures,”
I'd like to see the data here. Is there any indication that the crime wouldn't be present in other areas of life? Would the people committing these crimes be law-abiding citizens if not for the temptation of these cars being easier to steal? Or would the police resources be spent on alternate crimes? It seems the common denominator here is people willing to commit crimes, not the city's claim that it "would not have been" if the company increased security.
Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts
#55Lots of comments that didn’t read the article so here’s a good excerpt on why there’s a lawsuit. Baltimore’s lawsuit says the companies “failed to keep up with industry standards,” and claim it was a result of business decisions made to reduce costs and boost profits “notwithstanding decades of academic literature and research supporting the deterrent effects” of anti-theft technology. “The dramatically increased rat…
It’s also worth noting that this was all started with a viral TikTok video showing Hire ridiculously easy it is to steal a Kia/Hyundai is. Here’s a collection of graphs showing the before and after of theft data in major cities. https://usafacts.org/data-projects/car-thefts
This echoes what happened in 2004 with Kryptonite locks and Bic pens.
Someone figured out that you could open a Kryptonite lock using a Bic pen, which has roughly the same shape as a tubular lock key. You did not need to use the actual key or pick the lock. There was a rash of bike thefts afterwards.
TikTok is a convenient scapegoat, but I think the problem would exist without TikTok, because it so closely echoes a similar situation from 2004. To be honest, I think that the manufacturer should bear the blame in both scenarios—it’s their responsibility to make sure that the products can withstand, for at least a few minutes, an unskilled thief with inconspicuous, unpowered, commonly available tools (like, a thief with no lock picks or angle grinders).
Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts
#56even after reading the article this lawsuit makes no sense. inherently a car that can easily be repaired can easily be stolen. the implication is that Baltimore does not want cars that can easily be modified so they cannot easily be stolen. troubling to say the least. then again, baltimore isn't exactly the pinnacle of governance. take the iphone for example, which are notoriously difficult to use if stolen. the resu…
I don't follow the reasoning that inherently easily repairable cars are easily stolen. Cars have shipped for decades with steering and in some cases transmission locks. These required physical key and programmed fob to be present in order to start and drive. Security was down to the quality of the engineering of those components. I don't see how it hampered modification to or ability to repair the rest of the car.
you disagree that a car that's more reparable is more easily stolen? imagine a car with screws on the door to be swapped, and another car without them. you don't think the car with the screws would be easier to steal?
Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts
#57People are commenting on this with a fundamental lack of understanding of a car's ignition system.
This design truly is flawed. Traditionally, the immobilizer in an ignition system is physically tied to the steering column. Basically, you'd need to remove the steering column (the physical pipe that goes between your steering wheel and the front steering rack) in order to remove the part. If you want to defeat that immobilizer, you need to do a massive amount of damage to the mechanism, and that damage usually destroys the electronics that register the correct key being put into the ignition switch. This is more or less a self-reinforcing security feature, since the car wont start without this electronic signal.
Kia/Hyundai decided to just tack a little immobilizer module on without integrating it into the steering column, and they didn't even do a decent job mechanically securing it to the column from the outside. That means you can jam a screwdriver in there and pop the "security" mechanism off. Once that's gone, you're left with a little (conveniently USB sized) nub that can be turned which will immediately start the car. No muss, no fuss, no recognition that it's missing its immobilizer module.
Its a fundamentally flawed design, and it never should have made it past review.
Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
Consider reading the article The concerns are valid >Certain Kia or Hyundai models can be stolen using a screwdriver and a USB charging cord. >Cleveland, St. Louis and Seattle are among the other cities that started suing the the car companies earlier this year. Baltimore’s lawsuit says the companies “failed to keep up with industry standards,” and claim it was a result of business decisions made to reduce costs and…
Are the spikes of car thefts similar across all cities? Every large city has Kia and Hyundais, you would think this would be a nationwide phenomenon.
> Every large city has Kia and Hyundais, you would think this would be a nationwide phenomenon.
It absolutely is, though.
Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Consider reading the article The concerns are valid >Certain Kia or Hyundai models can be stolen using a screwdriver and a USB charging cord. >Cleveland, St. Louis and Seattle are among the other cities that started suing the the car companies earlier this year. Baltimore’s lawsuit says the companies “failed to keep up with industry standards,” and claim it was a result of business decisions made to reduce costs and…
The article sounds like if you leave the door open you should assume anybody will enter and steal you. This is reversing the victim to the victimary. In a sexist way would be similar that you are being raped because you wear some specific clothes. Or you are hacked because you don't apply a patch.
People downvoting are so used to scummy people that they think it's the norm.
In other societies crime is not normal, and "teenagers" have two braincells to understand that a thief is a repugnant person and that the consequences are not worth it.
Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts
#60People are commenting on this with a fundamental lack of understanding of a car's ignition system. This design truly is flawed. Traditionally, the immobilizer in an ignition system is physically tied to the steering column. Basically, you'd need to remove the steering column (the physical pipe that goes between your steering wheel and the front steering rack) in order to remove the part. If you want to defeat that im…
flawed or not, the onus is not on Kia. ultimately baltimore is suing them because of the spike in car thefts, not because of the flawed design. presumably if baltimore had no thieves, there would be no thefts irrespective of the design.
so in effect baltimore is suing kia becuase their cars are getting stolen which is ridiculous.
i don't know how anyone can defend this.
this would be like baltimore suing banks for allowing customers to put in the pin "1234" after seeing a spike in money theft through ATMs.
if Baltimore wants the cars to be harder to steal, then they should work with the governor to pass a law that requires cars sold in Maryland to have whatever security functionality they deem necessary.