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My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

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Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#641

Post by bumby »

scarface74 wrote: post #612
bumby wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this correlate with the increase in polarization? I know Jonathan Haidt has spoken about his research on the increase in polarization is America. If that correlation exists, it may point to an alternative hypothesis to the GP claim that the issue is rooted in those coming from "low trust" societies and due to an internal mechanism.

This gets back to my other statement where people seem to ignore Jim Crow laws and the segregated south. How much more “polarized” can people be than literally being forced by law to do everything separately?

So you’re saying we are less polarized? How do you square that with Haidts research?

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#642

Post by mightymosquito »

I actively avoid companies that ask random leet-code problems, but the sad reality of the situation is I can't avoid it completely.

While I think being unscrupulous in any shape or form is incorrect, I do feel some sense of revenge in fooling people who whole heartedly give in to this unfair process.

Being unfair to an unfair process, seems pretty fair to me(i know extreme opinion, but I am trying to find a job, its frustrating how people don't care what you are actually going to do at a job, and just ask you random questions that might be related to what you do in a distant way).

I've tried searching for solutions in the past in interview situations, but am not smart enough to cheat like that, always end up fumbling. Hence has resorted to going back to grinding on LeetCode.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#643

Post by lesuorac »

scarface74 wrote: post #605
lesuorac wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean didn't the greater European community as a whole benefit greatly by access to the materials found in the "new world" (and also Asia)? Plantations is a bit vague but to assume Cotton; people benefited tremendously from cheaper clothes. A lot of the early industrial revolution was weaving machines which wouldn't be possible without a lot of cotton. Robber barons is a bit vague but to assume railroads; people ben…

> mean didn't the greater European community as a whole benefit greatly by access to the materials found in the "new world" (and also Asia)? At the expense of killing millions? At the expense of killing and enslaving millions?

It would really help if you could identify a specific business to talk about.

Columbus wasn't a business but if you take a look at why he got funding [1] you'll see its very clearly for the greater good (of the crown). Of course, the inhabitants of the land being colonized are not taken into consideration but they're also not the one giving Columbus his funding.

I think you need to think a bit longer about this. If slavery wasn't useful economically why did so many civilizations engage in it?

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyages_of_Christopher_Columbu...

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#644

Post by cptskippy »

now__what wrote: post #624
cptskippy wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there’s a big difference between perspectives Here's my take... The difference between the United States and other countries is how we internalize things. We're very much guilt or shame driven because of the heavy influences of puritanical, fundamentalist, and catholic religions. It's not that Americans don't cheat/indulge/whatever, it's that they feel bad about doing it. And that doesn't stop Americans from doing…

Agree that the US can be pretty puritanical, so some of the aversion to cheating is driven by guilt/shame. But on the other hand, when you grow up without the necessity to lie/cheat, and when it isn't normalized, you never learn the methods to get away with it, and sometimes that's enough of a deterrent. There are things in my life I'd rather lie about, but I don't because I never learned to lie convincingly. The sam…

> Figuring out how to cheat on a test/interview sounds like a way more effortful and stressful experience than acting honestly

That's easier said than done when the market is expecting unrealistic job experience, requiring coding tests of knowledge that won't be leverages for the job, and asking candidates to participate in ridiculous interview processes.

For someone with an established resume it's manageable but for candidates fresh out of school without much work experience they're faced with a hostile hiring process.

It's reasonable to understand that they would feel the need to cheat to even get a foot in the door.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hirings-new-red-line-why-newc...

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#645

Post by robertlagrant »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #456
robertlagrant wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the relationship between abusive marriages and no-fault divorce? Won't abusive people be the easiest to divorce with fault?

Abusers are at their most dangerous when you try to leave them. They will be even more dangerous if you have to damage their public reputation with the ugly truth to try to escape. No fault divorce makes it vastly easier to divorce for a lot of reasons and making it unnecessarily hard to leave can foster situations where it becomes abusive because they don't get along that well and can't just up and leave because the…

Understood, but in this context of parenting and looming child support, would that not present an equally difficult situation?

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#646

Post by robertlagrant »

kmoser wrote: post #451
robertlagrant wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the relationship between abusive marriages and no-fault divorce? Won't abusive people be the easiest to divorce with fault?

That's theory. In reality abused women may choose not to attempt to divorce (or even leave) their abusive husband since they fear retaliation.

How is that relevant? Why would no-fault divorce help that situation?

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#647

Post by granshaw »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #355
red-iron-pine wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Fake it till you make it" has been a thing for a long time -- hence the catchy phrase. When did this wonderful meritocracy exist? Where? I think back to Jobs and Woz, and how he got him to hack a project to win a contest, and then didn't tell Woz and kept the money. It's been here since day 1.

Some things are different structurally. Eg about 50 years ago most kids grew up with both of their parents, today it’s about half. Less adult time per child means a generation with far less formation. It has to collapse before it gets better, but it will take centuries to get back to Rome levels of violence and back stabbing.

How I can be a good example to my child is what I’m most worried about. I’m not even convinced myself that having the highest levels of integrity is beneficial in current society, let alone when they’re of age.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#648

Post by boondoggle16 »

liminal wrote: post #128

Honesty matters more than technical merit -- at least when I'm hiring.

How do you identify liars who are technically skilled at lying? It seems like an intractable problem.

The best option I can see is to refuse to hire "obvious" dishonest people, aka unintelligent dishonest people. But intelligent dishonest people are able to pass without us knowing they are dishonest, and cannot be identified until their low performance becomes apparent. And we wouldn't hire unintelligent people to begin with.

And, evaluating performance in software is notoriously difficult, dare I say impossible? A skilled and intelligent dishonest person can come up with many plausible-sounding excuses for why things are taking so long.

So do you just fire anyone that takes longer than normal? In that case, you scare the actual good engineers, they will just go somewhere safer.

In the end, I don't think there's a way to evaluate honesty, without ruining your business. So I think bad actors are always rewarded.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#649

Post by BeFlatXIII »

tristor wrote: post #282
spamizbad wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say the pro-cheating attitude is pretty widespread among young adults tracking into white collar careers, and computer science is no different. It usually starts in school - and these interview quizzes track this behavior pretty closely. Even without the cheating, you can pass an interview "honestly" by putting in the time to cram for it. That does not justify cheating in any way, though. The fact that people…

> they also need to fix their process to actually test skills. If we're being honest, LC style interviews aren't even about testing skills, it's trying to proxy for testing raw intelligence (or at least the ability to remember and regurgitate lots of facts). If companies could just IQ test people and hire by IQ, there'd be a lot less weirdness in interviews, but that's illegal (and probably rightly so).

…and I fully support cheating on IQ and LC tests. If you successfully cheat, that means the interviewing company failed the test.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#650

Post by boondoggle16 »

leoqa wrote: post #305
tokai wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is a low trust society?

It’s not. We have functioning institutions that generally perform well over long periods of time. People respect the rule of law and there is an expectation of justice. Spend time in Honduras or Brazil to see what low trust looks like.

> People respect the rule of law and there is an expectation of justice.

I'll preface this comment by saying, I recognize that the injustices in Honduras and Brazil are not at all like what we see in the U.S. But my comment is about the perception of justice in the U.S. by common citizens (in my opinion).

This is a very privileged take. Vast numbers of people in the United States of America do not believe this to be true.

The sides don't matter. Leftists believe that black people can be executed at will. Rightists believe that white people can be imprisoned for life, for doing their job (police) or defending themselves.

I'm honestly surprised to hear this take. Up to this point, you may be disagreeing with me, thinking I'm crazy, or whatever. But consider the three letter agencies. CIA, FBI, ATF, doesn't matter how you spell them. They have supranational powers which are not balanced by any civilian or even political oversight whatsoever.

People are allowed to inject drugs in the streets (where it's illegal), menace, defecate in the streets, expose themselves, rob, steal, and nothing at all really happens.

Americans haven't woken up yet, but the rule of law is already dead.

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