Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 155 posts

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#101

Post by mikeryan »

moneywoes wrote: post #79
mikeryan wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mexico is going to need to change their labor laws if they want a big piece of this pie. I’ve had a nearshore team in Mexico for four years the people are great for all the reasons mentioned. The gap, however is costs. We’re used to “at-will” employment in the states are used to a “Hire slow, fire fast” paradigm. In MX the cost to fire a full time employee is 3 months severance (regardless of seniority) plus 20 days…

Why not just hire the employees are contractors instead?

The contractor vs fill-time employee line is pretty hazy in most countries. Mexico has actually closed that loophole.

IIRC after six months of contracting an employee is considered full time regardless of the mechanism of hiring.

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#102

Post by [deleted] »

Daishiman wrote: post #73
denimnerd42 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

dfw has world class restaurants and one of the best airports. and a highly diverse housing stock. you can get a new house at 400k or you can live in a mansion or high rise condo or anywhere in between. recreation is the major downside and the heat but that’s what the airports are for. world class private and public schools, major universities, etc you can also get a mortgage. good luck in buenos aires!

But driving and having to take flights for entertainment are precisely what people hate about American urbanism and one of the bigger reasons why people move back.

[deleted]

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#103

Post by mikeryan »

ye-olde-sysrq wrote: post #68
holoduke wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hope for Mexico they dont follow the unhumane worker rights of the states. Basically europe has the same principles as in Mexico and people in Europe have good lifes.

Yeah, TIL Mexico is so pro-Labor. It's disgusting to see "we have to pay 6 months severance to chuck out someone who spent half a decade of their lives with us!" said unironically, even on this board.

Let me clarify the point. I don’t have an issue with the severance for staff I’ve had to let go for as layoffs due to economic conditions of the company. I’ve made those severance payments without issue.

My issue is more with letting go of people for performance reasons. Hiring someone for 2 months and finding out they are under performing still requires the severance pay. You can fight this with the labor board but the standard is high when letting go because of performance.

It’s a paradigm shift for most US based companies where letting someone go for performance reasons can come at a low cost.

It also means, in the context of this thread, that Mexico is at a competitive disadvantage to other south and Central American countries with more lax labor laws.

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#104

Post by carlosjobim »

geewee wrote: post #49
mikeryan wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mexico is going to need to change their labor laws if they want a big piece of this pie. I’ve had a nearshore team in Mexico for four years the people are great for all the reasons mentioned. The gap, however is costs. We’re used to “at-will” employment in the states are used to a “Hire slow, fire fast” paradigm. In MX the cost to fire a full time employee is 3 months severance (regardless of seniority) plus 20 days…

The hire-slow, fire-fast paradigm might be an employers dream, but it is _terrible_ for employees. In the worst-case situation you end up quitting your job and maybe even moving to be let go with little warning? That's rough. I think if the employer wants to fire someone, they _should_ be paying for severance.

For good workers it is better, as it is easier to get hired and you won't have to pick up a bunch of slack for useless colleagues who are impossible to fire. And if you are fired it's easy to find a new job. Hard firing is only good for employees who don't deliver.

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#105

Post by local_crmdgeon »

roflyear wrote: post #77
local_crmdgeon wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The skill isn't even an issue - you just hire them for the right roles. Having the same definition of "no" as Americans is huge. Indians have a really tough time saying something isn't going well, or that we shouldn't do a project, for cultural reasons. That's great! Culture is great. For work though, something closer to the culture of the outsourcer makes it a lot easier to deal with. Flights are also so muc…

Unfortunately I don't feel like south America has the legal system and lack of corruption to really take off.

No one starts with a perfect government. China still doesn't have a real legal system, and it's definitely taken off.

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#106

Post by eschneider »

causi wrote: post #69
snapcaster wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really get this anecdote, this seems less like someone having a different definition of "no" and more like just ignoring you (which happens all the time, it's hard to listen to everything in a workplace slack)

I'm surprised Slack doesn't have a functionality where you can tag something like a sentence or a phrase as "essential" and make everybody else tap a button acknowledging that they've read and understood it. Maybe also with a timer that stops you from tapping it before you can read it.

Ah, but as soon as everything is tagged as "essential", nothing is. :/

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#107

Post by local_crmdgeon »

mikeryan wrote: post #34
local_crmdgeon wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The skill isn't even an issue - you just hire them for the right roles. Having the same definition of "no" as Americans is huge. Indians have a really tough time saying something isn't going well, or that we shouldn't do a project, for cultural reasons. That's great! Culture is great. For work though, something closer to the culture of the outsourcer makes it a lot easier to deal with. Flights are also so muc…

Mexico is going to need to change their labor laws if they want a big piece of this pie. I’ve had a nearshore team in Mexico for four years the people are great for all the reasons mentioned. The gap, however is costs. We’re used to “at-will” employment in the states are used to a “Hire slow, fire fast” paradigm. In MX the cost to fire a full time employee is 3 months severance (regardless of seniority) plus 20 days…

That's why Colombia is worth checking out. They're much more balanced between capital and labor. Google has a big office in Bogota for a reason.

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#108

Post by local_crmdgeon »

geewee wrote: post #49
mikeryan wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mexico is going to need to change their labor laws if they want a big piece of this pie. I’ve had a nearshore team in Mexico for four years the people are great for all the reasons mentioned. The gap, however is costs. We’re used to “at-will” employment in the states are used to a “Hire slow, fire fast” paradigm. In MX the cost to fire a full time employee is 3 months severance (regardless of seniority) plus 20 days…

The hire-slow, fire-fast paradigm might be an employers dream, but it is _terrible_ for employees. In the worst-case situation you end up quitting your job and maybe even moving to be let go with little warning? That's rough. I think if the employer wants to fire someone, they _should_ be paying for severance.

Been great for me as an employee. People are willing to take risks if they know they can fire you if it doesn't work out. That risk has been my carrier, as someone without a traditional background.

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#109

Post by huevosabio »

foobarian wrote: post #36
huevosabio wrote: post #33

I can speak for Mexico. We have so much going for it. 1. A robust manufacturing economy (unlike the rest of LATAM) right on the border with the #1 consumer. 2. A culture that is easy to digest for Americans and Europeans alike. 3. People that are welcoming of foreigners, and used to them thanks to decades of tourism. 4. A relatively educated and increasingly educated population. 5. A very comprehensive free trade agr…

What is the situation with cartels? I like the idea of Mexico but tbf I'm terrified of even visiting for tourism because of the shooting/kidnapping stories. For example for the '24 eclipse I'm just sticking to Texas

TLDR: It really depends on where you are. Stick to the tourist and safe cities and states and you will be fine.

CDMX, Yucatan, Oaxaca, and many of the frequently touristed areas are very safe. There has been increasing cartel activity in Riviera Maya (Cancun, Tulum, etc) with shootings between cartel members being more common, but AFAIK it hasn't gotten bad enough for people to feel unsafe.

It's a whole different story in the states of Tamaulipas, Sinaloa, Chihuahua, Colima, etc. There you have strong cartel presence and constant fighting.

However, even in those states you can probably be safe if you know which areas to stick to. When I visit home (I am from Juarez, Chihuahua), I don't feel unsafe, but I do stick to the "safe" areas. Moreover, in my city, most of the violent crime is just cartel-on-cartel shootings so I don't worry about petty crime or kidnappings or what not (this was not the case back in 2008).

There are states like Guanajuato where you have record numbers of homicides. But within the state you have Guanajuato city and San Miguel de Allende that are famous tourist destinations (beautiful places) and are remarkably safe.

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#110

Post by carlosjobim »

EMM_386 wrote: post #90

I am a lead on a project that uses a 'nearshore' team to augment a very small team of very senior devs. 20+ years each respectively. That decision was made above me, but has turned out well. Code quality is good and the pay should cause concern US developers. This is an enterprise system with an Angular 15 front-end. Just the front-end is complex enough that it requires strong understanding of how to write proper Ang…

US developer salaries are not high because their employers want to be nice, they are high because the employees deliver work that makes/saves much more money than they cost. So in fact there is money to give remote devs in Latin America the same high salaries for the same reasons.

If they instead press salaries down, then I guess the solution is for US devs to move to Latin America and reap the increased quality of life. There is really no good reason for the typical young programmer to live in hostile environments like the US or Europe. In the long run the result is that Latin American based business might out-compete North American, since the talent is there and the customers are world-wide.

Post reply on HN