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My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

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Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#201

Post by tough »

Spooky23 wrote: post #34
gardenhedge wrote: post #4

I grew up staunchly against cheating. Becoming an adult was hard. My whole university class cheated on a tough assignment - someone found the solution online and shared it around. I didn't look at it, took the challenge and gave it a lot of effort. I got a pretty bad mark and the rest of the class got top marks. I also see the same mindset in work. People don't prepare for presentations and then spitball when present…

We live in an era of transition. Deals and speed are more important than rigor. When the easier money dries up, that will change.

Hadn't easy money dried up already ?

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#202

Post by 2-718-281-828 »

some cheaters are actually good at what they cheat about and simply cheat to obtain additional advantage. the post seems pretty whiny to me. morally he's right but we happen to live in a "doggy-dog" world and moral codes are promoted by successful cheaters to keep the plebs under control. I don't want to justify cheating but it's game theoretic conclusion that you either play the game by the by the rules and most likely you will lose or you cheat a little and get a chance at winning. I hate that our society is like that but I can't change it.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#204

Post by rahimnathwani »

Null-Set wrote: post #119
devoutsalsa wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangentially related… Life insurance companies (in the USA 20 years ago when I sold it) would require a medical exam for every life insurance application. If the applicant commits fraud by having someone else take the examination (usually a blood draw, height and weight measurement, and maybe a heart EKG for bigger policies), the policy is considered valid after two years. Even if the insurance company finds out frau…

The implication being that after 2 years the immediate risk of death the insurance company wants to protect itself against did not come to pass, so the policy holder should not have the risk of losing their policy to a post mortem determination of fraud from the insurer despite believing they were insured. Taken back to the fraud in interviews, you could make the same argument that after some time working on the job…

But the bar for firing is below the bar for hiring.

This is true not only because of status quo bias, sunk cost etc., but also because employers will often try really hard and be very patient, in the hope that an employee's performance will improve.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#205

Post by shusaku »

n4r9 wrote: post #9
kspacewalk2 wrote: post #2

Yes, it's fundamentally unfair to those interviewees who don't cheat. And the process is broken. However, the conclusion this person reaches - we must conduct these broken interviews in person so the cheaters can't cheat - is the wrong one. Look at it from the point of view of the hiring company now, not the interviewer. They got a person who was good enough (based on the merits of their actual work, not interview pe…

Isn't there an alternative interpretation, that the internal evaluation process is just as broken as the hiring process?

How about the lack of personal ethics correlating with success in what we know to be highly unethical companies…

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#206

Post by tough »

toss1 wrote: post #99
preommr wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironic then that the real test was to see who has flexible thinking to adjust to a dynamic situation and who mindlessly follows misconstrued advice. If you really wanted to challenge yourself there's nothing stopping you from doing extra excerises outside of class. Yes, your other classmates were wrong for cheating, but you're paying the university and they can't even be bothered to update the their tests because the…

While it's unlikely these test results were deliberately leaked as a 'real-world' learning exercise, the principle definitely applies. I had a friend in college friend who was in a Government major program, which was notorious for handing out insanely large reading lists for each class, like literally a ~meter tall stack of books for a term. Being the highly conscientious person she was, she spent the first three yea…

Why didn't they told them so, what a shitty professors

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#207

Post by shrimp_emoji »

scarface74 wrote: post #175
asimpletune wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, you're definitely right about that. I wasn't there for the golden era, which I imagine to be something like Jobs and Woz phreaking on the phones and ripping of Xerox as sort of the "noble" form of evil. It's hard to speak quantitatively about qualitative things, but that' something that enters the discussion as soon as words like "more" or "less" are uttered. In any case, you're absolutely correct that I'm defi…

You mean the same era where Jobs cheated Woz out of his fair compensation and took credit for the Breakout game?

And then Bill Gates ripped off Xerox and beat Apple to the punch on desktop GUIs ;p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmMqMYgswsA&t=609s

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#208

Post by 11101010001100 »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #188
nevermindiguess wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal of interviews and assignments is not to achieve an outcome but to assess someone’s abilities. Henceforth, cheating cannot be justified.

> The goal of interviews and assignments is not to achieve an outcome but to assess someone’s abilities. Maybe to the interviewer. But for the applicant the goal is to achieve an outcome.

Why not just literally take the job?

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#209

Post by rahimnathwani »

BlueTemplar wrote: post #168
heelix wrote: post #27

I've done a lot of screening interviews and cheating does happen. Some of my favorites: * developer attempts to pass something off as video lag, as he attempts to lip sync someone else's answer. * developer had printed all the 'common' answers on the wall behind his computer, and would look up to them for reference as we were talking. Then the tape came off and covered him in a a paper stack overflow. * the glorious…

What I don't understand is... these are pre-screening interviews at companies that get tons of applicants, right? What happens during the actual in-person interview that follows ??

A lot of 'on sites' were remote during the pandemic, and a lot of roles now are remote, so may not have an 'on site' at all.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#210

Post by TheCapn »

My friend who got me my current job once told me about how he got into the Games industry. Back in the university days of applying to Coop positions he had a day with 2 interviews back to back. While he bombed the first interview, he had some excellent interviewers who were happy to show him where he did poorly and guide him through the problems to the correct answers. On the second interview, they used the same questions and he got the job.

Now? He runs his own studio. After spending ~10 years in various positions at AAA and Indie studios he's out doing it on his own, and best as I can tell he's doing a damn good job of it. I won't doxx him, but he's got his name under several highly regarded releases.

Am I conflicted with the idea of cheating interviews? Perhaps a bit. But knowing a brilliant mind like him just needed the guidance to get through a terrible practice to show his true talent? I'm happy he was fortunate to be able to ""cheat"" in the way he did. I wish him all the best.

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