My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022) • Hacker News Board

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#61

Post by sk5t » Wed, May 10, 2023, 1:05 PM UTC

fauxpause_ wrote: post #29

gardenhedge wrote: post #4

I grew up staunchly against cheating. Becoming an adult was hard. My whole university class cheated on a tough assignment - someone found the solution online and shared it around. I didn't look at it, took the challenge and gave it a lot of effort. I got a pretty bad mark and the rest of the class got top marks. I also see the same mindset in work. People don't prepare for presentations and then spitball when present…

What does spitball mean? I don’t prepare for presentations but I can’t tell how that would be cheating.

It means to extemporize / ramble.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#62

Post by allenrb » Wed, May 10, 2023, 1:06 PM UTC

throwawaysleep wrote: post #22

voidfunc wrote: post #10

There is no such thing as "cheating" once you're out of school and the sooner new grads realize that the better off they will be. The real world is very much "fake it till you make it", "do whatever is necessary" because we're all just trying to make money to live and retire.

Even within the school system. I intend to teach my kids the only problem with cheating is the punishment that might result. Cheating has a price along with a weighted chance of that price applying. Is what you might gain worth the expected price? The greatest regret of my life is not lying blatantly to get admissions and scholarships to university.

I’m a pretty firm believer in first learning the rules and only then, learning when it’s “OK” to break them. You’re probably not doing your kids any favors by skipping the first step.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#63

Post by mihaaly » Wed, May 10, 2023, 1:08 PM UTC

I am not sure if any self respecting person wants to work in such places among such people with such culture.

But it is good to know what kind of people are in charge in those organizations, thanks for the info.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#64

Post by fauxpause_ » Wed, May 10, 2023, 1:08 PM UTC

sk5t wrote: post #61

fauxpause_ wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does spitball mean? I don’t prepare for presentations but I can’t tell how that would be cheating.

It means to extemporize / ramble.

But that’s not cheating on presenting, that’s just doing a bad job, no? That is, just visible incompetence?

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#65

Post by nequo » Wed, May 10, 2023, 1:09 PM UTC

preommr wrote: post #50

gardenhedge wrote: post #4

I grew up staunchly against cheating. Becoming an adult was hard. My whole university class cheated on a tough assignment - someone found the solution online and shared it around. I didn't look at it, took the challenge and gave it a lot of effort. I got a pretty bad mark and the rest of the class got top marks. I also see the same mindset in work. People don't prepare for presentations and then spitball when present…

Ironic then that the real test was to see who has flexible thinking to adjust to a dynamic situation and who mindlessly follows misconstrued advice. If you really wanted to challenge yourself there's nothing stopping you from doing extra excerises outside of class. Yes, your other classmates were wrong for cheating, but you're paying the university and they can't even be bothered to update the their tests because the…

Your comment reads as though you were saying that cheating on an assignment is “flexible thinking.” That’s quite a stretch.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#66

Post by denton-scratch » Wed, May 10, 2023, 1:09 PM UTC

dsm4ck wrote: post #13

A disappointing part of adult life is how often "just lie" is the best advice.

I don't think it's the "best advice". The problem with lies is that one lie begets another, and you end up trying to defend a whole bunch of lies that don't necessarily weave together coherently.

I guess I have low appetite for risk.

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave When first we practise to deceive."

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#67

Post by John23832 » Wed, May 10, 2023, 1:10 PM UTC

fauxpause_ wrote: post #37

nevermindiguess wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal of interviews and assignments is not to achieve an outcome but to assess someone’s abilities. Henceforth, cheating cannot be justified.

If the assessment has no relationship to the job requirements then the test assessment cannot be justified either

As much as I hate the current interview process, this isn't true.

The justification foe the assessment is that the assessment is the defined set of hoops that the company who you are trying to get paid by has assigned.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#68

Post by AnimalMuppet » Wed, May 10, 2023, 1:10 PM UTC

n4r9 wrote: post #9

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #2

Yes, it's fundamentally unfair to those interviewees who don't cheat. And the process is broken. However, the conclusion this person reaches - we must conduct these broken interviews in person so the cheaters can't cheat - is the wrong one. Look at it from the point of view of the hiring company now, not the interviewer. They got a person who was good enough (based on the merits of their actual work, not interview pe…

Isn't there an alternative interpretation, that the internal evaluation process is just as broken as the hiring process?

There is another, even more cynical, interpretation. They may have been discovered to be incompetent, and promoted into a role where they can do less damage.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#69

Post by runlaszlorun » Wed, May 10, 2023, 1:10 PM UTC

I’m going to go out on a limb here and be “that guy”.

But in my experience, there’s a big difference between perspectives on cheating in the US vs perspectives in… let’s just say broadly… “some other nations”. I say this as an American who has lived overseas much of my life and, lest you think I’m just a flag waving parrot for the US, prob prefer living overseas and am more than willing to criticize the heck out of the US on a range of topics when relevant.

I prob shouldn’t be afraid of listing out these specific cultures where cheating is not just ok but encouraged- as these are things that come from multiple occasions of direct experience- but I’d rather not make this look like a racist judgement on certain cultures.

I’m not saying here that there aren’t Americans who cheat and I’d be lying if I said I had never cheated on an exam in undergrad. And there are certainly cultures outside of the US that on average are at least as intolerant of cheating or more so.

But I think the big difference between that and a lot of the opinions I’ve seen in comments here and in the article is that- at least in my case- these were slipups done in moments of desperation and I damn sure wouldn’t be bragging about it on a message board and am overall somewhat ashamed at having done it.

Feel free to downvote me or call me a moron…

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#70

Post by nverno » Wed, May 10, 2023, 1:11 PM UTC

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #2

Yes, it's fundamentally unfair to those interviewees who don't cheat. And the process is broken. However, the conclusion this person reaches - we must conduct these broken interviews in person so the cheaters can't cheat - is the wrong one. Look at it from the point of view of the hiring company now, not the interviewer. They got a person who was good enough (based on the merits of their actual work, not interview pe…

> And, importantly, there's no reason whatsoever to think that if no cheating was allowed and a different person took the job, that they would on average be any better.

I think there is plenty of reason to think people who actually know the stuff instead of cheating would be better on average. It's a signal that they were smart enough and motivated enough to learn the material (basic algorithms/coding skills in this case)- both traits that would probably make them better on average at the job.

Being a good cheater is a useful skill that probably also helps people on average- but I doubt it's nearly as useful an indicator of future success as being good at the skills necessary to do well on interview questions (w/o cheating).