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Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

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Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#161
post #121
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, India today is not exactly a beacon of righteousness. The current government in India is taking the country on exactly the same path as Pakistan except that India has an oligarchy which is being setup by people in government which would make it more like Russia. I'll give the country 10 years to implode if it doesn't course correct to become more inclusive, social justice oriented, and less violent.

I'll give the country 10 years to implode I am willing to take a bet for any $$ value with 10x odds in your favor to contest that claim. more inclusive, social justice oriented, and less violent Hot take. If you genuinely cared about these things, you'd end up a supporter of the Modi Govt. I do not mind views that are diametrically opposite to me. But, every article in western media seems to be written by someone who…

As a casual exercise, I would suggest you look for a graph of lynchings, riots, and raids in India especially of minorities and "others" for varying levels of trivial reasons by groups associated with the ruling party with patronage and overt support from it. Every festival season is open season for riots in many places. Execution style public hit jobs bypassing "due process" on rivals, criminals, and others are becoming more common.

I would also have you take a hard look at the fascist speeches of sitting ministers advocating for violence in India. All of these are documented and the perpetrators and sponsors of this are in government without consequence.

To make matters worse, the administration seems to be gnawing at some independence the supreme court shows by wanting to take over the appointments of Judges. It even gives judges plum positions post retirement for favorable judgements. Need I say more?

Without a course correction, I'll give it 10 years.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#162
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll give the country 10 years to implode I am willing to take a bet for any $$ value with 10x odds in your favor to contest that claim. more inclusive, social justice oriented, and less violent Hot take. If you genuinely cared about these things, you'd end up a supporter of the Modi Govt. I do not mind views that are diametrically opposite to me. But, every article in western media seems to be written by someone who…

Are you claiming that BJP under Modi isn't pushing for "Hindutva", or that the latter is somehow "more inclusive" than the policies that preceded it?

Yes. But not the way you might think.

Let me be clear. I am not a Bhakt, don't particularly love Modi and have complained quite often about bad policies during his regime. My goal is to help people build a representative view of India, not one that fawns over Modi.

The BJP absolutely pushes for Hindutva, but 'Hindutva' is an umbrella term that can mean anything from 'places greater importance on cultural traditions that have been in the subcontinent longer' to 'murderous nazis' depending on who you ask. Since you asked the question, it would help if you specify what you mean by hindutva.

to your question--> what does 'inclusivity' look like? If inclusivity is complete blindness towards religion in front of the law, then you get France style secularism which BJP pushes. On the other hand, you have the Congress's secularism that is in complete contrast to those values. In that sense, both the BJP and the Congress are secular parties, without agreement on wat that term means.

85%+ of Indian muslims are pasmanda low-caste muslims. The previous govt. (congress) did not have a single pasmanda muslim represented in their govt. The BJP is now reaching out to them directly. India never had tribal representation at the national stage, and the BJP elected a tribal woman to the presidency. The BJP has time and again, promoted meritocratic candidates over nepo-babies, making the electoral system more inclusive. India is a not a nation divided on religion alone. It is mostly divided on economics. By focusing in more effective governance and distribution of social welfare, BJP's govt. has disproportionately benefited the poorer population of India. These policies do not discriminate by religion or any other identity. Western style views of inclusivity do not translate well to other nations.

As for the bills like CAA, removal of 370 and the like. The Congress's own policies show that these had bipartisan support up until the BJP brought it up. I don't blame them, politics is politics. But, in isolation, both parties acknowledge that these were necessary changes for national security. The CAA was initially instituted by the Congress itself and the sorry state of section 370 at removal was also a result of bipartisan erosion of that bill over time. (it was meant to be a temporary provision anyway. But I won't get into that right now).

Discussions around vague words like Hindutva and inclusivity are never productive. It would be more helpful to define what we mean by these terms. Create a list of policies implemented by the Modi govt. over the last 8 years and compare those against the govt. that came before. If there is a clear trend that emerges, then we can play ball. Or else, it is all smoke-and-mirrors.

    somehow "more inclusive" than the policies that preceded it?
That one I can say with confidence. The congress has been a party of nepotism for so long, that Modi did not have to do too much to appear more inclusive than them. Modi's biggest strength right now, is the sheer incompetence of his opposition. They continuously pushed away their very best to the point of humiliation.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#163
post #6

I would like to believe there is a future where blocking access to the internet is unilaterally impossible. Major powers being able to pull the rug on what has become a foundation of modern society like this is too scary of a thing to allow. What could the answer be? Satellite-powered relays and DIY-able user devices to talk to them?

You can’t fix a political problem by throwing more tech at it.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#164
post #161
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll give the country 10 years to implode I am willing to take a bet for any $$ value with 10x odds in your favor to contest that claim. more inclusive, social justice oriented, and less violent Hot take. If you genuinely cared about these things, you'd end up a supporter of the Modi Govt. I do not mind views that are diametrically opposite to me. But, every article in western media seems to be written by someone who…

As a casual exercise, I would suggest you look for a graph of lynchings, riots, and raids in India especially of minorities and "others" for varying levels of trivial reasons by groups associated with the ruling party with patronage and overt support from it. Every festival season is open season for riots in many places. Execution style public hit jobs bypassing "due process" on rivals, criminals, and others are beco…

We seem to disagree on the basic facts. Don't think anything productive will come out of this. I WILL save this comment and come back to it in 10 years just to be petty. (or eat my own words if it goes that way)

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#165

Contrary to popular belief, at least in my country (India). I feel bad for the citizens of Pakistan. There has not been a single stint of govt that has lasted peacefully since independence. A country can never grow without a peaceful transfer of power, and constant political imbalance will just not allow anything to advance. A shared history/culture with us and it's a shame our govts have differences. We fought toget…

[dead]

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#166
post #6

I would like to believe there is a future where blocking access to the internet is unilaterally impossible. Major powers being able to pull the rug on what has become a foundation of modern society like this is too scary of a thing to allow. What could the answer be? Satellite-powered relays and DIY-able user devices to talk to them?

What you suggest is impossible, because you are attacking a wrench on the head problem with a coding solution. You can always get a dish and connect to your choice of orbital provider, if your ISP - which is regulated - is blocked. The problem is, guys with guns will come to your door, beat you with a wrench, and put you in jail. Now if we solve for the real issue - lack of freedom because of a ruling class, the tech…

GP didn’t say “your access to the internet”, but “access to the internet”. The solution is partly technical, because it’s about increasing the number of heads that must be wrenched to disrupt a society’s access to the internet.

The only way that can be done is by reducing the cost and technical ability needed to connect to the internet with fewer intermediaries that can be wrenched by governments.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#167
post #6

I would like to believe there is a future where blocking access to the internet is unilaterally impossible. Major powers being able to pull the rug on what has become a foundation of modern society like this is too scary of a thing to allow. What could the answer be? Satellite-powered relays and DIY-able user devices to talk to them?

You can’t fix a political problem by throwing more tech at it.

But technology can empower individuals to change the balance of political power. See printing press, cryptography/encryption, social media etc.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#168

Contrary to popular belief, at least in my country (India). I feel bad for the citizens of Pakistan. There has not been a single stint of govt that has lasted peacefully since independence. A country can never grow without a peaceful transfer of power, and constant political imbalance will just not allow anything to advance. A shared history/culture with us and it's a shame our govts have differences. We fought toget…

Modi is corrupt. The guy does not have the interest of the country at heart, he just cares about the Ambanis and increasing the wealth of his political allies.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#169

Contrary to popular belief, at least in my country (India). I feel bad for the citizens of Pakistan. There has not been a single stint of govt that has lasted peacefully since independence. A country can never grow without a peaceful transfer of power, and constant political imbalance will just not allow anything to advance. A shared history/culture with us and it's a shame our govts have differences. We fought toget…

[flagged]

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#170
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you claiming that BJP under Modi isn't pushing for "Hindutva", or that the latter is somehow "more inclusive" than the policies that preceded it?

Yes. But not the way you might think. Let me be clear. I am not a Bhakt, don't particularly love Modi and have complained quite often about bad policies during his regime. My goal is to help people build a representative view of India, not one that fawns over Modi. The BJP absolutely pushes for Hindutva, but 'Hindutva' is an umbrella term that can mean anything from 'places greater importance on cultural traditions t…

>If inclusivity is complete blindness towards religion in front of the law, then you get France style secularism which BJP pushes.

If I could give you points for humor, I would.

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