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EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

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Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#831

Post by dghlsakjg »

hef19898 wrote: post #791
dghlsakjg wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. One visit to an industrial fastener store will let you know that there is no such thing as a standard screw/bolt. Even metric Mx machine screws (which are the closest thing I can think of to a standard) have 4 different common pitches, and you can have them custom made to ANY pitch.

And a look in enineering literature and norms, EN for example, woupd tell you thatvall those different screw types, from heads and pitches to strength and surface treatment, are, in fact, stabdardized and normed. And of course you can get custom parts for everything. Those are, as the name implies, custom and not standard.

The point is that EN standards are set by industry, not government. This is a reply to a comment about supposed government regulations around what a screw is allowed to be.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#832

Post by phkahler »

jfengel wrote: post #827
rektide wrote: post #774

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three phase to the home?! Whaattt?! If you want to rectify yourself some DC power, 3-phase is awesome. Are there three phase sockets available? I'd think you could build things like high power audio amplifiers or power supplies at radically better price points, if this were actually usable from the wall in places.

How is 3-phase better for rectifying? Is it because it's easier with them 120 degrees out of phase rather than 180?

You always have power available at any instant. The capacitor is only for smoothing the ripple, not holding energy while none is being delivered. 3-phase motors just work too.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#833

Post by phkahler »

adrr wrote: post #768
phkahler wrote: post #762

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> And we are stuck on AC which is a terrible and wasteful way to move electricity. That's a really strange thing to see here on HN. Where did you get this idea? BTW Europe having 3-phase AC to the home is brilliant. Wish we had that in the U.S.

Fact that the US main power distribution network(eg: pacific DC intertie)runs on DC that we concert back to AC for regional distribution and then back to DC to power our houses like lights, tv, electronics etc. AC is inefficient long distances and still needs to be converted to DC to power our stuff.

Most long distance distribution in the U.S. is AC. AC/DC conversion at high voltage and power is a pain, as is DC/DC voltage change.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#834

Post by Dylan16807 »

crote wrote: post #802
zamnos wrote: post #796

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB-C is also inferior to lightning for laptops, but here we are. It's got this stupid internal tongue on the recepticals that will break if you try and clean the port with an office standard paperclip with any real force. Hope you don't do anything involving tiny particles like sand or wood or cloth (like is found inside of pocket in the form of lint)!

That "stupid internal tongue" is why USB-C can now carry 160 Gbps, while Lightning can only do 0.45 Gbps. Yes, it kinda sucks for cleaning, but it makes it future-proof.

Lightning is that limited because Apple chooses for it to be, not because of the port. They made a double-sided variant with high speed data before.

The port can't directly drive all the weird miscellaneous pins that USB-C has, but it does have four high speed lanes, the same as USB-C. On a physical level it can reach the same speeds.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#835

Post by Dylan16807 »

detourdog wrote: post #677
anigbrowl wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you were given specific examples of where your preferred tech falls short of others - examples that you asked for - and you chose to ignore them and switch to a different argument. That's kinda rude.

Sorry about that. Yes USB-2 is the limiting factor. I don't think it is quite as bad as you stated. They made 2 statements one about the tech being 13 years old. I agreed that the tech was 13 years old. Admitting that I felt I was implying the limits of the lightening port were dated and had technical limits. I guess if the original poster hadn't made the gratuitous comment I would have been more focused on answering…

The limitations are not a matter of Lightning being old. USB-C is almost as old.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#836

Post by Dylan16807 »

plandis wrote: post #635
stale2002 wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But some kind of "warning" to "do something we didn't say in the law" is just plain wrong. No. Acting in bad faith is what is wrong. If Apple doesn't like it, then they can shut down their business in the EU. Companies acting in bad faith should be explicitly punished, to an extra degree, that is intentionally designed to hurt them. We have this right, to use laws, in a society, to punish bad faith actors. If you d…

> No. Acting in bad faith is what is wrong. Do you have explicit evidence that Apple is acting in bad faith or are we merely inferring this?

Not for sure, but if they aren't planning weird cable locks then they can ignore the warning.

And if they had been considering them but already cancelled the plans, whoever got them cancelled gets proven right.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#838

Post by Dylan16807 »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #385
Jochim wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People keep repeating this but how frequently do USB C ports actually break? Anecdotally, I had horrendous issues with mini USB but I've never had a micro USB or USB C port break. I'm not particularly gentle with them either, I've had the female end come out of the cable boot/snap off and the cable stop working due to strain on the boot. I don't know anyone who has experienced this personally and I can't recall seein…

> People keep repeating this but how frequently do USB C ports actually break? Even if the real rate was only 1 in a thousand devices, that's still a serious burden for the unlucky few. Whereas for lightning connectors, it's trivial to dislodge.

You need to look at overall failure rate, not just that one specific type of failure can only happen to USB-C.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#839

Post by Dylan16807 »

throwaway2990 wrote: post #429
crote wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For low-speed (USB 2.0) devices, there are exactly three cables. One supports up to 60W, one supports up to 100W, and one supports up to 100W. Considering all the devices you listed need less than 60W, they should charge with all cables. If they do not, the manufacturer gave you a broken cable which does not follow the USB-C specification. Blame the manufacturer, not USB-C.

The fact there are different cables is what makes USB-C stupid. Do you think a mum and dad at home know the difference? My dad had a USB-C cable for his android tablet. When I got him an iPad he tried using the same cable. It wouldn’t change. That makes the whole point of USB-C pointless Defending the stupidness of USB-C cables just makes you a fanboy.

> The fact there are different cables is what makes USB-C stupid.

If you pretend you only need 60 watts, there is only one kind of cable.

> My dad had a USB-C cable for his android tablet. When I got him an iPad he tried using the same cable. It wouldn’t change. That makes the whole point of USB-C pointless

That wasn't because of multiple kinds of cable. That was defective equipment. They're not the same problem.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#840

Post by Dylan16807 »

sbuk wrote: post #147
kstenerud wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> limiting technical progress is not a good idea and we see that with the plethor of different power modes existing within USB-C. Who is limiting technical progress? The laws don't state that only USB-C can ever be used; they state that chargers must all be compatible. Want to improve it? Contribute to USB, or come up with an entirely new standard that everyone can agree to. > What if a company (Apple) comes up with…

> Want to improve it? Contribute to USB, or come up with an entirely new standard that everyone can agree to. They tried that with Lightning. Micro USB won because it was cheap. Apple are USB-C contributors. > Enough with the FUD. Indeed.

> They tried that with Lightning. Micro USB won because it was cheap.

Lightning was definitely not a new standard everyone can agree to. Apple was not letting anyone else make lightning ports.

> Apple are USB-C contributors.

What do I even say to this. The "contribute to USB" has an implied "and use the port you contributed to". Apple failed the second half of that.

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