41–50 of 61 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why would someone stick around at a party they don't like? Many sorts of parties involve a social obligation and leaving them early comes with a social cost.
Maybe I'm being weird about it, but what would it take to repeal the idea of social cost? If I'm being extra snippy about it, it seems like folks are not being held accountable for their feelings of social entitlement.
Reposts are fine after a year or so (this is in the FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html ) and it's good to have the classics reappear from time to time as the newer cohorts of users don't know about them yet. Related past threads... others? Shirky.com is gone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31038660 - April 2022 (143 comments, including from clay_shirky - perhaps he'll show up in this one too!) A Gr…
For those familiar, today was the day after reading this essay so many times, I discovered Clay wrote books, and I ordered some. Perennial links might make a great addition to the HN Lists page for readers new and old. I’d love to see what else I have missed out on.
For those who are new, the mentioned HN Lists page is at: https://news.ycombinator.com/lists
You'll also find it in the footer of every HN page with Lists as it's anchor text.
> If you were in a bookstore and you said, “I’m done,” you’d walk out. If you were in a coffee shop and said, “This is boring,” you’d walk out. > You’re sitting at a party, and you decide, “I don’t like this; I don’t want to be here.” And then you don’t leave. Wait.. what?? Why would someone stick around at a party they don't like? Is this really what normally happens?
Possible reasons, approximately in order of increasing complexity: * You were invited, and it would be awkward to leave too early. * You're someone's +1, and it would be awkward to leave them behind. * It's a party for you, and it would be ungrateful to leave. * You're intoxicated, and it's not safe for you to drive right now, so you need to wait until you sober up. * The host put in a lot of effort to arrange the pa…
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"You are at a party, and you get bored. You say “This isn’t doing it for me anymore. I’d rather be someplace else. I’d rather be home asleep. The people I wanted to talk to aren’t here.” For whatever reason, the party fails to meet some threshold of interest. And then a really remarkable thing happens: you don’t leave. You make a decision: “I don’t like this.” If you were in a bookstore and you said, “I’m done,” you’d walk out. If you were in a coffee shop and said, “This is boring,” you’d walk out. You’re sitting at a party, and you decide, “I don’t like this; I don’t want to be here.” And then you don’t leave. That kind of social sticki- ness is what Bion is talking about.
And then, another really remarkable thing happens. Twenty minutes later, one person stands up and gets their coat, and what happens? Suddenly everyone is getting their coats on, all at the same time. Which means that everyone had decided that the party was not for them, and no one had done anything about it, until finally this triggering event let the air out of the group, and everyone kind of felt okay about leaving."
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At least that's how I'm reading it? This is confusing - why would anyone stay longer in such a situation? How is this different from the coffee shop or bookstore example?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Possible reasons, approximately in order of increasing complexity: * You were invited, and it would be awkward to leave too early. * You're someone's +1, and it would be awkward to leave them behind. * It's a party for you, and it would be ungrateful to leave. * You're intoxicated, and it's not safe for you to drive right now, so you need to wait until you sober up. * The host put in a lot of effort to arrange the pa…
Sure, but the example being portrayed seems to be focused on a party where one feels no obligation to stay (for friendship, socialization, intoxication, or future expectation): --- "You are at a party, and you get bored. You say “This isn’t doing it for me anymore. I’d rather be someplace else. I’d rather be home asleep. The people I wanted to talk to aren’t here.” For whatever reason, the party fails to meet some th…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Possible reasons, approximately in order of increasing complexity: * You were invited, and it would be awkward to leave too early. * You're someone's +1, and it would be awkward to leave them behind. * It's a party for you, and it would be ungrateful to leave. * You're intoxicated, and it's not safe for you to drive right now, so you need to wait until you sober up. * The host put in a lot of effort to arrange the pa…
Sure, but the example being portrayed seems to be focused on a party where one feels no obligation to stay (for friendship, socialization, intoxication, or future expectation): --- "You are at a party, and you get bored. You say “This isn’t doing it for me anymore. I’d rather be someplace else. I’d rather be home asleep. The people I wanted to talk to aren’t here.” For whatever reason, the party fails to meet some th…
If it is really unimaginable to you that someone would not leave a social event the minute they're bored, this whole concept of groups might be a little alien to you. Maybe you're autistic, in a way that's very different from how I am. I don't know at all; I don't know you. But I can say confidently that it is normal behavior to hang out a little longer than you really want to at a social event.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why would someone stick around at a party they don't like? Many sorts of parties involve a social obligation and leaving them early comes with a social cost.
Maybe I'm being weird about it, but what would it take to repeal the idea of social cost? If I'm being extra snippy about it, it seems like folks are not being held accountable for their feelings of social entitlement.
Compromise is mandatory in order to have a functioning society. This is a kind of compromise.
Thanks, Dan. This is a classic (as was almost everything Clay Shirky wrote).