Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 161 posts

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#71

Post by disruptiveink »

As a non-US citizen/resident, I can't wait for Americans to finally riot against tipping, just so they stop doing it abroad. A shame that it had to take comical proportions domestically for people to start questioning it.

Americans tipping abroad while on holidays ruins service for everyone that isn't American – as a non-American you are guaranteed to get worse service than a American in touristy places (and sometimes, to add insult to injury, your own local places), because an American tourist will just insist on tipping 20% or more in places where maybe 1€ = good tip and 2€ = great tip. It doesn't matter if they repeatedly get told not to do it, American tourists keep insisting on doing it to "be nice".

The result is that hospitality obviously optimises for being extra nice to Americans and treat everyone else with apathy. And because you only tip at the end, it doesn't even matter if you were willing to tip like an American, you're going to get the bad treatment (and by then when the bill arrives any motivation to tip well is gone – a classic catch-22). You're basically discriminated for not looking and speaking with an American accent everywhere you go as a tourist.

Please, inform yourselves of tipping cultures when you travel and do it appropriately. Also take in consideration a lot of "this is how much you should tip" guides online are horrible wrong and err on the side of overstating the tip (no idea why – possibly not to offend US sensitivities?). You'd think with all the "cultural appropriation" and "cultural imperialism" awareness these days people would be better in not imposing toxic parts of their culture elsewhere, but here we are.

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#72

Post by deverly »

Night_Thastus wrote: post #59
corey_moncure wrote: post #34

I took my wife out to a fancy steakhouse over the weekend and remembered what "service" is supposed to be. Our waiter poured my wine, cut up our steak table side and served us, cracked pepper over our salad, went above and beyond in every way to ensure that we were comfortable and satisfied. I gladly tipped him 20% on $300 and would do so again. On the other hand, I left $10 on top of a $50 takeout order at a local I…

You're looking at it a bit backwards. This is not "employees are greedy, want money for nothing". This is a case of "employees barely paid enough to get food each week, survive off tips". People forget that minimum wage comes out to around $15k a year. Even $15 an hour is only $30k. In almost all of the country, that's not enough for the cheapest rent, upkeep on a cheap car, food, taxes and other bills. Excessive tip…

I don’t know how much their wages are to calculate their pay discrepancy that their employers are cheating them nor do I have their income statements. The employers’ responsibility is being put on to the customers. And then the customers are the assholes for guessing wrong.

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#73

Post by WithinReason »

Night_Thastus wrote: post #59
corey_moncure wrote: post #34

I took my wife out to a fancy steakhouse over the weekend and remembered what "service" is supposed to be. Our waiter poured my wine, cut up our steak table side and served us, cracked pepper over our salad, went above and beyond in every way to ensure that we were comfortable and satisfied. I gladly tipped him 20% on $300 and would do so again. On the other hand, I left $10 on top of a $50 takeout order at a local I…

You're looking at it a bit backwards. This is not "employees are greedy, want money for nothing". This is a case of "employees barely paid enough to get food each week, survive off tips". People forget that minimum wage comes out to around $15k a year. Even $15 an hour is only $30k. In almost all of the country, that's not enough for the cheapest rent, upkeep on a cheap car, food, taxes and other bills. Excessive tip…

> Excessive tips are the only way a lot of people working in the service industry survive at all.

Not in Europe

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#74

Post by idiotsecant »

vsareto wrote: post #63
maerF0x0 wrote: post #26

I want to see an end to tipping in America. I also want to see servers paid at least a living wage, and the excellent ones to earn more (perhaps by having to move upscale where wages ought to be higher reflecting more skill and effort) Is there a viable path forward? Is there some way I can support it happening?

Probably not. Prices for just decent places are already ridiculous since the pandemic, and they would use salaries as an excuse to raise prices further or to fight it. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the revenue goes to the owners but they still whine about tight margins though.

This is already tested. There are state minimum wages well above the average that don't see wild price spikes. It turns out owners can in fact pay a higher minimum wage without substantially increasing prices, they just prefer not to.

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#75

Post by lastofthemojito »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #26

I want to see an end to tipping in America. I also want to see servers paid at least a living wage, and the excellent ones to earn more (perhaps by having to move upscale where wages ought to be higher reflecting more skill and effort) Is there a viable path forward? Is there some way I can support it happening?

> Is there a viable path forward?

That's the tough part. The places that I'm familiar with that experimented with no-tipping ended up reverting back to the standard model. With tipping, good waiters at good restaurants can make solid money - probably more than they'd be paid in a no-tipping model. So they quit and get a different job with tips, and the back of the house makes a bit more money, but then overall business declines due to the less-experienced/lower-quality waitstaff.

I think we're stuck with the tipping model we have in the US until some tech really disrupts the dining experience - robot waiters or some such.

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#76

Post by Fernicia »

Tipping in the U.S. is such a travesty.

This is painfully apparent in bars. Compared with, say, Ireland where a barman can take multiple orders at once, batch them, then quickly take payment via a single contactless tap.

In the U.S. you have to "open a tab", the bartender has to add drinks to your tab, then when you want to pay, the bartender has to print off the tab, have you sign it, do mental maths, and finally write down the total bill. I'm sure there's also extraneous labour when it comes to reading the signed amounts and inputting them into the billing system.

It also lends itself to fraud. What's stopping a bartender adding a few bucks here and there on tipped amounts. Or a card owner disputing a tip they genuinely gave. The idea that a bar which has scanned your card, can then withdraw any amount it wishes at a later date is totally backwards and should be stopped.

I am convinced that if a bar were to switch to the non-US system, then the increase in order speed and reduction in prices would mean no lost profit for the bar, and happier customers.

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#77

Post by idiotsecant »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #46

Adding an anecdote I've heard, supposedly these tips and charity options are in some cases being used to test price sensitivity in the market. If your coffee was $5 and that saturated your purchasing power, you wont tip or donate. But if you have additional purchasing power untapped you are more likely to, or more likely to choose a higher than average amount. This data helps the business create a price curve that al…

That is diabolically clever. I always try to cash tip so the worker doesn't see it on taxes (unless they choose to) but this is another big reason to cash tip only.

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#78

Post by ricardobayes »

didacticBuffalo wrote: post #57

Even worse is "pre-tipping" like in UberEats. As you place an order you're asked if you'd like to tip your driver before you get your delivery. I typically add 10% cuz if i don't my Uber rating goes down and i get less rides when i need them so it's more than blackmail. It's extortion. As well as a reason not to have one-app-to-rule-them-all It infuriates me when i add a tip and the driver f ups. I've had the wrong f…

I haven't used this service, but the food delivery guy can rate you and that also affects your other Uber rating? What the heck? How does that make sense?

Re: Tipping at self-checkout has customers crying ‘emotional blackmail’

#79

Post by ipnon »

Tipping is a classic prisoner’s dilemma. Everybody stops tipping, we all win. You stop tipping, and you lose. One thing is for certain, no amount of think pieces in major newspapers will change the status quo. There needs to be a different solution, maybe technical, in a reasonable direction.
Post reply on HN