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EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

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Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#821

Post by aetherson »

MagicMoonlight wrote: post #547
aetherson wrote: post #477

I think Apple should just make USB-C the norm for iPhones. But the idea that a trans-national government over 750M people should be trying to regulate in this level of detail is just obviously a recipe for disaster. For every one time they successfully push a company to do something correct -- but ultimately trivial, like this thing -- there are going to be 10 cases where some bureaucrat makes a bad decision and they…

>They're saying we can't put sawdust in bread, if they're that interested in a small product like that then what's to stop them banning lead in toys?

If only there were some kind of distinction we could draw between health and toxicity regulation versus "which charger for your phone is better." I just can't think of what it could be.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#822

Post by ericmay »

justincormack wrote: post #395
ericmay wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean the plug in the wall for adapters? Assuming so but please correct me if I’m wrong. :) Not the hill I’m going to die on, but doesn’t the lack of change kind of prove the point? Is what we have today the absolute best thing we could have? There’s probably room for innovation here. It’s a balance right? Not changing is good but also… it can’t get any better. With consumer electronic devices we’d still be usi…

Thunderbolt on new Apple machines is USB4, and not proprietary.

You're right I was thinking of the lightning cable. (Thunderbolt -> Lightning ugh)

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#823

Post by tankenmate »

detourdog wrote: post #289
tankenmate wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using the lightning cable has more onerous standardisation and compliance requirements (not all of which are purely technical requirements) than USB. This is one of the reasons that there is less availability of lightning port accessories.

Please elaborate. Whatever onerous issues I have with a lightening port pale in comparison to the usability of any USB port of comparable size. I understand standards and think many are great.

It's called the "Made for iPhone" program; if your device doesn't comply and you don't pay Apple then your lightning port cable / device is limited in the power it can draw / supply (1A @ 5v I think), and data speeds (480Mbps from memory). It has a yearly fee as well as a per connector fee (so pass through cables attract double that cost); it used to be USD4 per connector but that was nearly 10 year ago so it's probably higher these days.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#824

Post by xorcist »

worrycue wrote: post #771
xorcist wrote: post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Micro-USB was mandated by the EU. That's a large part of the reason we even have a standardized charging port. This has been enforced since late 2012 (in draft since 2008) and is the reason why Apple had to include the micro-USB adapter in order to sell in the EU. There is no reason for speculation since facts are available on your friendly neighborhood wiki. What we're seeing now is that the law is updated to enforc…

It wasn’t mandated the same way USB-C is today. It had enough flexibility that Apple could implement the superior Lightning connector. If the EU mandated micro-usb the way they are USB-C, Lightning would not have been released.

Please explain why you think this is true, it is far from obvious. I don't have time to read the legalese in detail, but from reading an abstract it doesn't seem to be the case.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#825

Post by croes »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #648
croes wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can have one water/dust proof port you can have two. How about making phones thicker again? More place for a battery, less risk of the next bend gate. That's a bogus debate because there are more than enough possibilities.

If you have one weak spot, its fine to add more?

After all these problems with tinted screens, bendable frames, failing camera focus etc. I think the ports aren't the weak spots in modern smartphone.

Adding more and more cameras doesn't seem to be a problem and camera parts are more sensitive than ports.

If you look at ebay for phones with a defect, how often is it one of the ports?

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#826

Post by dbg31415 »

Moldoteck wrote: post #651
dbg31415 wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talking a year from now. Or 5. How does anyone advance? People will stop trying, USB-C is just the mandate. Why spend money building alternatives? It’s adding a barrier to tech that shouldn’t be there.

This law basically targets Apple for not using type c, but it doesn't say it directly. All brands, including apple invested in type c and they got a good port but didn't use it. People will continue innovation just like before because law allows revising the standard so that all brands just like before will will choose the next standard. But imo there is no need for another standard for phones. I don't know if there…

So walk me through this...

Under the new law, if Apple, or anyone else, wanted to develop a new port what would they have to do?

1) Create the new port. 2) Get the government to sign off on it. 3) Get the market to adopt it.

You see the problem though...

2 and 3 are both reliant on each other.

So if Apple comes up with a great new port, why would anyone shift? For that matter, why would Apple even try to come up with one, knowing there's a huge uphill climb to even be able to use it themselves?

Historically Apple (or anyone else) would just have to come up with a port... use it on all their products, and sooner or later others would catch on.

Who knows what the future holds... but I know 20 years from now phones will still be using USB-C thanks to this law. And that concerns me.

My main objection is just I don't like the USB-C port.

Like, will this ruling apply to laptops? So we can't have MagSafe? Or we have to have both? Does Apple have to ship with USB-C and then you'll have to buy MagSafe ports? That sucks.

The USB-C port has the stem on the device. Which means, if the stem -- the most breakable part of the port -- breaks, you're buying a new device instead of just a new plug. That's what I fundamentally hate about USB-C.

And it's thicker than a Lightning port. There's not a huge difference, but what if I want a slimmer phone again? Too bad, so sad... the government doesn't want you to have sleek and sexy.

Except, can Apple ditch ports all together and just use wireless charging... or is it mandated to have a USB-C plug?

Apple is only going to make one version of their phone... and I just don't like Europeans being able to dictate what gets sold in America.

Apple (and others) bow to Chinese (and others) censorship... I hate that too.

This all just feels so petty... "Hooray, we stuck the Americans with a different phone port, isn't Europe so wonderful!" Just feels like a weird place to flex.

All of this feels like someone is upset at Apple for not paying enough in taxes so they are trying to get a bit of revenge.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/15/tech/apple-ireland-tax-europe...

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#827

Post by jfengel »

rektide wrote: post #774
phkahler wrote: post #762

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> And we are stuck on AC which is a terrible and wasteful way to move electricity. That's a really strange thing to see here on HN. Where did you get this idea? BTW Europe having 3-phase AC to the home is brilliant. Wish we had that in the U.S.

Three phase to the home?! Whaattt?! If you want to rectify yourself some DC power, 3-phase is awesome. Are there three phase sockets available? I'd think you could build things like high power audio amplifiers or power supplies at radically better price points, if this were actually usable from the wall in places.

How is 3-phase better for rectifying? Is it because it's easier with them 120 degrees out of phase rather than 180?

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#828

Post by Sammi »

f_devd wrote: post #122
blurrybird wrote: post #109

As somebody who last night got an Apple stem out of their daughter's lightning port using a SIM card ejector tool, I'm torn. You can't do that (safely) with USB-C because of the female plug design.

You can clean USB-C the same way (I have before) but you need a needle or a very thin sim ejector

I cleaned my phone usb connector like this last week, after the charging cable wouldn't go in, because something was lodged in there. Just used a pin I found on the wall at work to scrape it out. No problem ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#829

Post by tinus_hn »

ghaff wrote: post #352
ohgodplsno wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has a single production line. If they drop Lightning for the EU, they drop Lightning for the whole world. Their entire margin strategy is based on having as few SKUs as possible. In the same way that GDPR made every single major US tech player comply and offer more or less the same tools for the rest of the world.

Of course Apple has more SKUs than they need to have. Different product generations, sizes, storage options, colors, etc. Adding a different connector on some subset of models for some number of countries is perfectly doable. It's probably moot because Apple seems to be moving to USB-C over all their product lines anyway. But if the EU were to mandate something that Apple felt was a materially inferior choice, I'd fu…

GDPR is actually an excellent example, all tough talk with strict rules, yet basically nobody follows the rules and nothing happens. The government itself runs websites that say ‘you can’t visit this site unless you agree to our use of cookies!’

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#830

Post by detourdog »

tankenmate wrote: post #823
detourdog wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please elaborate. Whatever onerous issues I have with a lightening port pale in comparison to the usability of any USB port of comparable size. I understand standards and think many are great.

It's called the "Made for iPhone" program; if your device doesn't comply and you don't pay Apple then your lightning port cable / device is limited in the power it can draw / supply (1A @ 5v I think), and data speeds (480Mbps from memory). It has a yearly fee as well as a per connector fee (so pass through cables attract double that cost); it used to be USD4 per connector but that was nearly 10 year ago so it's proba…

I don't have a problem with vendors doing this. I prefer standards but since one side of the cable is a standard I think it is fine. Implementing ports cost money . Developing for Apple customers costs money. One can choose their market based on costs.

I understand the lightening standard show it's age and is in need of an upgrade. Why the EU is involved in the decision making process is lost to me.

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