Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

techradar.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 868 posts

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#351

Post by philistine »

least wrote: post #319
notimetorelax wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a different experience with lightning. Almost all my lightning cables show burn marks on the connector on one side and charge only in a particular orientation. This behavior reproduces with new cables and new iDevices. Anecdotally, I never had any issues with USB-C charging.

> This behavior reproduces with new cables and new iDevices. Considering that this is almost certainly related to your own personal behavior and/or environment, it isn't surprising that you find it reproducible, albeit a bit odd. It only charging one way indicates corrosion, probably on the cable itself, but possibly on the female port on the device itself. Burn marks probably means there's a grounding issue somewher…

> Considering that this is almost certainly related to your own personal behavior and/or environment, it isn't surprising that you find it reproducible, albeit a bit odd.

Hey, before you accuse people of doing the wrong thing, make sure you're right. Lighting has historically had shorts issues when inserting, and Apple has tried their best to resolve the problem. They never 100% resolved the problem however, although it is far less problematic with newer plugs. It's a big part of the reason why Apple went all in with USB-C so quickly after introducing Lighting.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#352

Post by ghaff »

ohgodplsno wrote: post #334
ghaff wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the end of the day, if Apple needs to have a slightly modified design to accommodate EU regulations, that's a drop in the bucket. And if it's slightly inferior in some way, that's between EU citizens and their governments.

Apple has a single production line. If they drop Lightning for the EU, they drop Lightning for the whole world. Their entire margin strategy is based on having as few SKUs as possible. In the same way that GDPR made every single major US tech player comply and offer more or less the same tools for the rest of the world.

Of course Apple has more SKUs than they need to have. Different product generations, sizes, storage options, colors, etc. Adding a different connector on some subset of models for some number of countries is perfectly doable.

It's probably moot because Apple seems to be moving to USB-C over all their product lines anyway. But if the EU were to mandate something that Apple felt was a materially inferior choice, I'd fully expect them to comply where they had to and implement a different option everywhere else.

GDPR is simply a case of, if a company doesn't have a compelling reason for not following GDPR where possible, it's just easier to follow mostly uniform rules worldwide.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#353

Post by nordsieck »

avar wrote: post #307
crote wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law explicitly states that it has to be reviewed every couple of years to determine whether USB-C it is still the best choice, or there has been sufficient technological progress to warrant a switch to a newer standard. The fear for a "lock-in" is completely unfounded, as the EU previously quasi-mandated Micro USB and switching to USB-C was no issue whatsoever. Besides, nothing is stopping manufacturers from incl…

Couple of years? The only mention I can find of a review is every 5, per[1]. I assumed the directive had some "go with the flow" upgrade path, but after reading the directive I can't see any wording to that effect. If the USB-IF depreciated USB-C in favor of a USB-X the EU's directive wouldn't change, the only "upgrade path" appears to be that the commission will "asses" whether the directive should be changed every…

> Who in the EU bureaucracy is going to risk their neck in approving a new connector, which might become the next industry standard, but might also be a rubber stamp approving future Apple-like fragmentation.

It's easy to do if there are regions in the world that aren't so tightly regulated. Then they can just look at what works elsewhere. If USB-D comes out and the rest of the world moves to it, it's a no-brainer for bureaucrats to get behind the switch.

It's much more complicated if the rest of the world fragments into say... 3 different standards that are all better than USB-3, but are mutually incompatible.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#354

Post by Kuinox »

RivieraKid wrote: post #329

I don't understand why USB-C doesn't use the Lightning form factor, which is clearly superior. It's smaller, simpler and more resistant to damage.

Lightning form factor have a lot of disadvantage. It already has problem with the exposed pins, USBC has wayyyyy more pins, which need to be tinier, and would easily be damaged.

Remember that apple contributed to the USB-C format, and prefer it for all their other products.

In USB-C, all the pins are protected by the outer shell.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#355

Post by croes »

detourdog wrote: post #244
croes wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you can't have different ports on a smartphone? You aren't forced to use only USB-C but to provide at least USB-C without artificial disadvantages. Without those standards the users are stuck or need to rebuy all accessories.

The lightning cable has whatever you want on the other end. The only thing needed is a cable. I only want 1 port on my phone. I don't really care what that port is. I'm very uncomfortable with government mandated ports.

Isn't the same true for USB-C?

Apple just blocks to lock you in their ecosystem.

Can I use a USB stick over lighting port? Last time I tried it was quite a hussle.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#356

Post by delecti »

avar wrote: post #307
crote wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law explicitly states that it has to be reviewed every couple of years to determine whether USB-C it is still the best choice, or there has been sufficient technological progress to warrant a switch to a newer standard. The fear for a "lock-in" is completely unfounded, as the EU previously quasi-mandated Micro USB and switching to USB-C was no issue whatsoever. Besides, nothing is stopping manufacturers from incl…

Couple of years? The only mention I can find of a review is every 5, per[1]. I assumed the directive had some "go with the flow" upgrade path, but after reading the directive I can't see any wording to that effect. If the USB-IF depreciated USB-C in favor of a USB-X the EU's directive wouldn't change, the only "upgrade path" appears to be that the commission will "asses" whether the directive should be changed every…

Looking at the USB connector history, it actually looks like most plausible "what if this was adopted X years ago" would have resulted in USB-C being adopted even earlier. The USB-C spec was finalized in 2014, and I had my first phone with USB-C in 2016. It's hard to come up with a timeline where a requirement for Micro doesn't get replaced by C in that time window, while not getting us ahead of where we are now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#Connector_types

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#357

Post by hef19898 »

ralfd wrote: post #316
lwhi wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely not true. There's still an incentive to be the company that replaces the technology. FUD.

What incentive would that be?

Owning the underlying technology of just has a huge propability of becoming the new, global charging trch and standards world wide?

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#358

Post by auggierose »

viraptor wrote: post #343
revelio wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple will certainly jump at the chance to spend money and time subsidizing its competitors research costs, in return for absolutely no competitive advantage. That's definitely what motivates people in the real world. Reality check: this approach means the rest of the world will have better tech whilst what's sold in the EU remains frozen in time.

Check the companies involved in any standardised connector/protocol currently used. For example USB implementers forum includes HP, NEC, Microsoft, Intel and... Apple. HDMI forum includes... Apple. NVMe contributors includes... Apple. The times of one company doing their own proprietary thing are close to gone.

In Europe those times are indeed gone now. If that's the natural way of things, why force anyone in the first place? Forcing a company to throw away their battle-tested technology? And all the equipment and cables with it? What kind of a huge bureaucratic fuck-up is this? This is not helping anyone, not the environment, not people. Well, it is helping some bureaucrats to justify their existence.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#359

Post by Moldoteck »

jackvezkovic wrote: post #281
crote wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law explicitly states that it has to be reviewed every couple of years to determine whether USB-C it is still the best choice, or there has been sufficient technological progress to warrant a switch to a newer standard. The fear for a "lock-in" is completely unfounded, as the EU previously quasi-mandated Micro USB and switching to USB-C was no issue whatsoever. Besides, nothing is stopping manufacturers from incl…

This EU regulation diminishes the incentive of researching and developing a new technology in this area. This is a fact. And no, innovation usually does not come from a bunch of companies sitting down to cooperate on a new version. First there is individual innovation, then there is consolidation, even if these come with changes from the original.

We had a fkin usb-c with godspeed of data transfer and 120-240W transfer and is universally adopted across different devices and brands and Apple still is using a fkin usb 2 with proprietary connector. There is innovation, Apple decided it's users don't need that to sell them overpriced accessories

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#360

Post by lttlrck »

Do you think Apple intended to stick with Lightning forever?

They were just taking their own sweet time. The fact that their other products switched a couple of years ago should make this obvious.

Of course the EU will crow when the next iPhone has USB-C worldwide. I doubt this has had a significant impact on Apples internal planning. If any.

It seems to me this will be more significant post USB-C and it's much more difficult to predict how it will effect the market and innovation.

And this particular topic (MFI) is based on rumour and speculation...

Post reply on HN