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EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

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Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#311

Post by kibwen »

nonethewiser wrote: post #262
epolanski wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't there a chicken and egg problem there - no one will release products with new power interfaces Yes, that's the point. Instead of anyone releasing products with new power interfaces the goal is to have industry-wide discussion on adopting new standards for everyone. I think it's reasonable and only a positive thing. If the industry will decide that USB-C isn't enough they will revise the standard.

> the goal is to have industry-wide discussion on adopting new standards for everyone. That’s not part of the regulation whatsoever > If the industry will decide that USB-C isn't enough they will revise the standard. But the industry doesn’t come together and pick a standard. The EU did. The closest industries came to picking a standard were freely choosing from many different formats that emerged. Imagine what it wo…

> But the industry doesn’t come together and pick a standard. The EU did.

No, the EU told the industry to come to a consensus, and everyone except Apple agreed on USB-C.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#312

Post by hug »

orra wrote: post #47
kstenerud wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, really. I still have a box full of old transformers kicking around from the bad old days. Now about half of my stuff is USB-C powered, and in another 5 years when I finally ditch the last of my old stuff I won't need a bunch of 5, 9, 12, and 15 volt power connectors (some AC, some DC) with 0.5, 0.8, 1, 1.5, 2, and 3 amp capabilities, in three different barrel connector sizes and two polarities. And of course App…

Similarly, finding the right replacement DC adapter for electronics is challenging. I have had to do this a few times, to avoid travel adapters bundled with equipment. Roll on more USB C dominance.

These little boards are ultra handy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIHj3qMRqqE

Rip the barrel plug off of things and replace it with USB-C input, or make your own USB-C 'dongle' to power anything that needs 12v.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#313

Post by dbg31415 »

Terrifying to give government this much control over tech.

If Apple wants to build a premium experience that is better than USB-C then what? They can’t?

We essentially gave W3C control over web accessibly and they can’t even release a new set of WCAG standards. Stalled and seems to be dead in committee.

Keep in mind the EU doesn’t even have a standard power outlet. This is just the EU being petty and bullying an American company.

Government is not the place for tech requirements.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#314

Post by kibwen »

frankfrankfrank wrote: post #270
epolanski wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is in any way authoritarian, no one's personal freedom is at stake here. The regulation is for hardware companies, not you. There is no "unfair advantage" to USB-C patent holders, it's a standard that the industry settled on in a cooperative fashion in which Apple was itself a major player. No one prevented the industry from working on a "patent-free" different standard. Point is, you can't and sho…

It never crossed your mind that there may be a reason that Apple does not want to use the USB-C standard for all its disadvantages over the lightning connector that they have now had for 11 years. Apple has had two types of plugs over 20 years now. Can you say that about Nokia? Samsung? Etc?

> It never crossed your mind that there may be a reason that Apple does not want to use the USB-C standard

The reason is extremely obvious: cementing user lock-in to the Apple ecosystem.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#315

Post by scarface74 »

sitkack wrote: post #257

USB-C could have used the lightening but we can thank Apple for that. USB should have never existed, it was a scam by Intel (and Microsoft) to put the PC at the center of everything. In a non-dumb world, we would be using Firewire over something like a lightening connector. Jobs was too greedy with Firewire for it to be successful.

You know that FireWire was a Sony standard right?

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#316

Post by ralfd »

lwhi wrote: post #283
jackvezkovic wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This EU regulation diminishes the incentive of researching and developing a new technology in this area. This is a fact. And no, innovation usually does not come from a bunch of companies sitting down to cooperate on a new version. First there is individual innovation, then there is consolidation, even if these come with changes from the original.

Absolutely not true. There's still an incentive to be the company that replaces the technology. FUD.

What incentive would that be?

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#317

Post by viraptor »

auggierose wrote: post #282
viraptor wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it can’t be sold in all the places that ban non USB C? How would you imagine that happening? The same way it happened for microusb->usb-C. Think of the law as more of a "get along shirt" applied to misbehaving kids/companies than a specific ban/enforcement. The big players can still decide on a new standard and start using it. The process would be something like this: someone has a need that usb-C connector can't s…

Isn't the regulation now different for usb-C than it was for microusb? In that, Apple could ignore microusb, and still sell their phones in Europe? What if Apple now comes out with a new standard much better than usb-c for their newest iPhone? They could not ship it now in Europe. So, all these examples referring to microusb are just really sloppy thinking. Which is exactly what I would expect from a huge bureaucracy…

Yes, the regulation is different now, a custom dongle won't be allowed this time.

> What if Apple now comes out with a new standard much better than usb-c for their newest iPhone?

Then they go to other manufacturers and say "we have a new, much better idea. we should collaborate on it, so that it's standardised and we can all use it next year". Then they all ship it in Europe and we all have a much better connector. Win win win unless you want very proprietary connectors.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#318

Post by sokoloff »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #306
christophilus wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if the whole world adopted this kind of regulatory stance, there would be much less incentive to invent that better cable because you now have huge regulatory bodies that may block its adoption and thus mean most of that work was money and time wasted. This kind of thing may tilt the risk / reward of research towards the riskier end of the spectrum. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing— just that it’s not without cons…

> if the whole world adopted this kind of regulatory stance, there would be much less incentive to invent that better cable because you now have huge regulatory bodies Imagine you didnt have law on shape and voltage of ordinsry power plugs in a house, and if you buy a samsung power socket to ibstall in your house, you mist buy samsung fridge and samsung washing machine and samsung hair dryer

That brings up an interesting question: “Is NEMA 5-15 in fact standardized by force of law?”

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#319

Post by least »

notimetorelax wrote: post #279
least wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Perhaps the "benefit" you describe is only relevant because the proprietary Apple cable design is so poor? No, the lightning connector's design is actually less prone to snapping than USB type c. Whether or not that it is an advantage is subjective, given that cables are inexpensive and the devices they're attached to generally are not. In my opinion lightning is a vastly superior connector to USB-C. It's easier to…

I have a different experience with lightning. Almost all my lightning cables show burn marks on the connector on one side and charge only in a particular orientation. This behavior reproduces with new cables and new iDevices. Anecdotally, I never had any issues with USB-C charging.

> This behavior reproduces with new cables and new iDevices.

Considering that this is almost certainly related to your own personal behavior and/or environment, it isn't surprising that you find it reproducible, albeit a bit odd.

It only charging one way indicates corrosion, probably on the cable itself, but possibly on the female port on the device itself. Burn marks probably means there's a grounding issue somewhere. Neither of them have much anything to do with lightning connectors, unless you suppose that the pins being outward facing rather than inward has something to do with the corrosion.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#320

Post by scarface74 »

DJHenk wrote: post #219
perryizgr8 wrote: post #151

I don't understand the rationale. Does the EU not have a free market where consumers can choose what they pay for? If lightning connector is an important enough issue for someone they can choose not to buy an iPhone. There are n number of alternatives available in the market, unlike the software ecosystem situation.

Having lots of alternatives is not always beneficial for society as a whole.

Yes, the EU should come up with “5 Year Plans” for everything…
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