Live data from Hacker News

Russians Seem Interested in My Book About How Dictatorships End

almendron.com

81–90 of 104 posts

Re: Russians Seem Interested in My Book About How Dictatorships End

#81
post #2

I'm not sure that transition of power is a 'taboo': Yekaterina Shulman have been discussing this topic for a few years for a wide popular audience. It's just that there was never any satisfactory answer to that one. With regards to dictators of Spain, Portugal and Greece. These countries could get rid of autocrats and fall back to Europe's safety net. But in case of Russia it is not an option, as nobody wants Russia…

I cannot speak for the whole continent, but as a single European who lives quite close to Russia, I say that a sane Russia would be the best thing that has happened to this planet in a long time. I truly want that.

For a while Putin's Russia actually looked a bit like that. In early 2000s, USA was the warmongering religious asshole idiot of the world and Russia started to look respectable and honest in contrast. But somehow all that crumbled away. In retrospect, perhaps it was just a facade.

Re: Russians Seem Interested in My Book About How Dictatorships End

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, they dream they could bring Russia to the modern age, democracy, human rights, respect for other nations , collaborations . Nobody in EU wants to steal Russians resources, too bad the Russian oligarchs are doing it. there is a Romanian saying about Romania but it applies to Russia too, "poor rich country" not sure if it translates well... the country is rich but the people are poor and suffering because of the s…

I don't remember EU doing anything in Russia that was conductive to democracy, human rights, respect for other nations, etc. The only positive influence I can think of, is European Court for Human Rights. But especially, EU didn't do anything when Putin decided to stay in power after 2008, they did not have much cultural integration with Russia, so it seems they expected to sit on the bank and expect democracy in Rus…

I am talking about Ruzzians === the Z patriots. They are so brainwashed that they actually believe the LGBTQ and Israel and other evil gangs are up to pervert Russia. The Z-eds are also proud of Putin's crimes and the dictatorship, they even try to explain why democracy is bad. This failled empire needs to fail from inside like URSS did and the other communist countries, and time needs to pass so tne non brainwashed generations can grow.

I am not sure what you want from EU, we are not USA to democratize them with force. The western EU thought that with economy they can prevent idiotic wars, this work for EU, we no longer have wars here and the population is very anti -war.

Not sure what happens in Baltic states but please don't fucking tell me Ruzzian propaganda on how well URSS or Russia is treating minorities, the fucking bastards of Putin and his gang are not respecting nationalities living in their own independent countries.

I know that Ukraine is almost as bad as Russia so pushing propaganda on how bad Ukraine is just pushes Russia even lower.

So for Romanians Russians or FSB trolls should not waste their time, maybe you can fool some westerner with how well you love minorities.

TLDR easter europe knows Russia well, Putin played EU and Germany but he made a bet and his dice did not favored him, but he will push this stupid SMO to the his death.

Re: Russians Seem Interested in My Book About How Dictatorships End

#83
post #45
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course there are many Russians that want an end to the regime. At least, every Russian I know. Why wouldn't they?

They’ve tried that once before and ended up here.

So? The French had to try a few times before Democracy stuck around. Germany and Japan had some... unfortunate... experiences with elections as well, but arguably they're actual democracies now, too.

Re: Russians Seem Interested in My Book About How Dictatorships End

#84
post #64
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoken like someone who has never lived under nor seriously studied the consequences and conditions of living in an autocracy (or who has, and wa part of the ruling class). Disgusting (&ya, the fact that democracies are imperfect, billionaires and would-be oligarchs often corrupt politicians is NOT the same. Self-determination and democracy are not binary, but on a scale. One scale is how well power is spread across…

You assume too much. > One scale is how well power is spread across the institutions of government and society, the legislative, judicial and executive branches, the institutions of press, academy, industry, religion, society... are they independent, or all bent to serve the executive, and now many and how much? That's nice, but let a country figure that out on their own. You don't get to decide that measurement for…

First, some fundamentals:

1) Freedom to live a self determined life, under a self-determined government is a most fundamental human desire, and right.

2) Neutrality ALWAYS favors the aggressor, the abuser, the autocrat. It allows them to continue aggressing, abusing, and dictating without interference, and provides only hopelessness to the victims of aggression, abuse, and autocracy.

3) Anyone who wants to live a self-determined life under a self-determining government must be better armed and prepared to fight for that right. Without being better armed and prepared, the abusers or autocrats WILL, and sooner rather than later, take their lunch and their government.

You argue to: >>let a country figure that out on their own Nonsense

Lacking the power to overthrow a dictatorship is NOT the same thing as choosing that person/party as a leader.

Once a group of abusers or autocrats has succeeded in the aggression to take over the government, that does NOT mean that it is permanently decided. Claiming so does nothing but help the abusers.

Just look at the Iran regime who came to power 40+ years ago. The regime has murdered hundreds of people and imprisoned and tortured thousand simply for daring to speak out against them by not wearing a scarf. Literally millions risk their lives to protest. It is obvious that the regime is not desired by the people, yet you claim that nothing should be done to help them, not even subtle things to undermine the regime's power. Disgusting.

You argue that: >>you pretend the measurement or polling must be incorrect Nonsense

Any presumption that polling about the popularity of an autocracy inside that autocracy is simply preposterous.

First, the polling sample is already pre-selected. All vocal opponents have been removed form the sample. Anyone even remotely connected to them has learned that speaking out has very negative consequences, either long-term imprisonment and torture or death. On top of that, all media and information is tightly controlled, so people cannot even get information about, much less discuss, alternatives. And you propose that polling under those circumstances is accurate? Oblivious, to be kind.

>>Ideologies are cheap Fully agree. Ideologies are nothing but bullshit covering for autocracy. It doesn't matter what kind of -ism you're talking about, communism, Marxism, Naziism, fascism, Trumpism, whatever; it is all noise to cover up the will to autocracy by those using it. As the -isms fall apart and away, we can see the fight for what it is - self-determination vs autocracy.

>>You assume too much. Nope, there are only a few choices for people who support autocracy. They (and sadly, you) are arguing to keep people essentially (and often literally) enslaved because they lack the power to force their will for self-determination on their oppressors.

The only reason someone would do that is 1) they are a dictator themselves, 2) they are in the ruling party and thus enjoy the benefits of a kleptocracy hoarding the wealth of a nation, or 3) they enjoy a privileged life in a democracy such that they can engage in abstract concepts that ignore the reality of millions and play the role of Vladimir Lenin's Useful Idiots.

The only other option is that you are somehow personally aggrieved because of some specific past action by the democratic nations affected you or your relatives, you are certainly avoiding that topic, and are also constructing an entirely false narrative to avoid direct discussion.

I will not argue that there are some if not many instances where actions of democratic nations were mistaken or misguided, and caused real damage and death. But contract the maximum total of that damage and death against the literally hundreds of millions killed by dictators (either by direct action or starvation by their policies) in just the last century (Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Un family, etc.+++), and the misery of billions more living under their regimes. Or just compare the economies and relative well-being of North vs South Korea, a controlled experiment. SK is wealthy, comfortable, and self-determining, while millions literally starve today in NK.

There is no debate. Stop defending it. It is abhorrent.

Re: Russians Seem Interested in My Book About How Dictatorships End

#85
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The elephant in the room is that if you invite everybody in your anti-war club, but one country, that remaining country will get really nervous and you might as well get a war (what we are seeing). If the situation is that you can't invite everybody in, then the plan is defective from the start.

NATO discussed bringing Russia in during the 1990s, and Russia was invited and did join some NATO regular meetings until relatively recently, but wasn't that interested in joining. I'm not faulting Russia for their position, just pointing out the thing you are claiming should have happened did indeed happen. But I will point out that Australia is as rich as Russia yet has not started any wars (except against its own…

The Russians didn't want to play 2nd fiddle to the US, and had significant domestic arms production -- a non-trivial amount of industry and GDP -- to look after.

STANAG and interoperability standards meant that the Russian gear would have to change, and the Russian weren't willing to give up the control of their national policy, or put their industry at risk.

It was a non-starter for a lot of reasons.

Re: Russians Seem Interested in My Book About How Dictatorships End

#86

Russians don't need a book, they need Molotov cocktails. They are much more effective when thrown at the regime's oppressive forces.

Who would win: An unarmed populace vs one of the best equipped militaries in the world? Unless you get a bunch of Russian generals to defect, the people don’t stand a chance.

> Who would win: An unarmed populace vs one of the best equipped militaries in the world?

Not anymore.

The Russian Army in WW1 was considerably larger, and conquered considerably more land, too. Yet they got Kerensky, and eventually, Lenin.

Re: Russians Seem Interested in My Book About How Dictatorships End

#87
post #3

If this is true, it suggests many Russians actually want their country to become a democracy: > Objectively — though it’s awkward to say — the book has become a bit of a phenomenon. But the book, “The End of the Regime: How Three European Dictatorships Ended”, is not about Russia or Vladimir Putin. It’s about three dictatorships — those of Francisco Franco in Spain, Antonio Salazar in Portugal and the colonels in Gre…

I'm really bad with modern European history, so perhaps you can give me the short version:

How bad was it? Did any of those countries become modern states without a ton of bloodshed?

Re: Russians Seem Interested in My Book About How Dictatorships End

#88
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you heard of North Cyprus? Also, North Ireland.

That seems to be deviating quite a lot from the concept of the existence of EU causing wars, as you suggested in the message I answered. By a few decades for North Cyprus (or 100+ years, depending from your definition of that conflict) a few centuries in the case of North Ireland. Or did I misunderstand what you wrote?

EU did not cause the war in Ukraine. Soviets did, by appending Donetsk Krivorozhye Republic to Ukraine SSR.

But, the fact is that expansion of EU and EU influence in Ukraine were conductive of that war instead of being a deterrent.

Re: Russians Seem Interested in My Book About How Dictatorships End

#89
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems to be deviating quite a lot from the concept of the existence of EU causing wars, as you suggested in the message I answered. By a few decades for North Cyprus (or 100+ years, depending from your definition of that conflict) a few centuries in the case of North Ireland. Or did I misunderstand what you wrote?

EU did not cause the war in Ukraine. Soviets did, by appending Donetsk Krivorozhye Republic to Ukraine SSR. But, the fact is that expansion of EU and EU influence in Ukraine were conductive of that war instead of being a deterrent.

> EU did not cause the war in Ukraine.

Correct.

> Soviets did, by appending Donetsk Krivorozhye Republic to Ukraine SSR.

No, the Russian Federation did, by launching an unprovoked war of aggression against Ukraine.

Re: Russians Seem Interested in My Book About How Dictatorships End

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't remember EU doing anything in Russia that was conductive to democracy, human rights, respect for other nations, etc. The only positive influence I can think of, is European Court for Human Rights. But especially, EU didn't do anything when Putin decided to stay in power after 2008, they did not have much cultural integration with Russia, so it seems they expected to sit on the bank and expect democracy in Rus…

I am talking about Ruzzians === the Z patriots. They are so brainwashed that they actually believe the LGBTQ and Israel and other evil gangs are up to pervert Russia. The Z-eds are also proud of Putin's crimes and the dictatorship, they even try to explain why democracy is bad. This failled empire needs to fail from inside like URSS did and the other communist countries, and time needs to pass so tne non brainwashed…

* Expecting a non-brainwashed, sane generation to take steer

* Also expecting them to lose a war voluntarily, agree to trillion of reparations and divide their country to dozens of strifing principalities.

Russian opposition is very self discredited. Compared to them, any version of patriot is super sane and non brainwashed.

Post reply on HN