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EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

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Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#691

Post by kklimonda »

Auracle wrote: post #500
viraptor wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a jaded view of the EU out to get you by (checking notes) ignoring the directive and not consulting with the experts so that they can force you to use a specific connector even when better options get created... Sure, I don't think we see the same reality.

First the bureaucrats would need to care. That’s a pretty big hump - people don’t like change. Instead of people going “yay, we’ll all finally be on the same connector” you’re going to have people going “no, I already have all of these cables and USB-C is good enough!” You’ll also need the various players on the other side to invest in development for something new with absolutely no guarantee that the EU will approv…

But this seems like a perfectly valid argument to have. I hate that I currently have at least 5 different "usb-like" cable types in my household: usbc to usbc, usbc to lightning, usba to usbc, usba to lightning, usba to microusb, and I probably still have some mini USB cables in some boxes.

I'd really hope that if something new is proposed it will be only once every player have decided to put their weight behind it to propose and push for a change.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#692

Post by bonzini »

worrycue wrote: post #669
bonzini wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The better connector would start on laptops, maybe high-end tablets too, and it would take a few years anyway before it moves to phones. That's what happened with USB-C at least.

So phones will be stuck on USB-C until the EU wills that it be changed. The EU will supposedly upgrade the mandate when a better standard comes along … but who gets to determine if the new standard is “better” enough to trigger a replacement. Some will want it replaced while some will demand that we keep the current standard. Can the EU really speak for everyone when people can have conflicting needs and wants? Ever…

> None of these would be issues if there wasn’t a stupid mandate. People will just use what they want and what is best for their needs.

I am not sure if this other issue would be better: https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Mobile-Charger/dp/B00D1759A...

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#693

Post by Dylan16807 »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #628
xg15 wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an entire product category of "universal power adapters"[1] that wouldn't exist if GP's problem weren't an issue - and that was back when most adapters were just "dumb" power sources that provided a fixed voltage with fixed maximum current. There is no way to combine Micro USB, USBC, Thunderbolt and whatever Microsoft was doing with Surface devices into one adapter without separate electronics for each port.…

As someone who designs device, I would HATE having to use a proprietary connector/device/protocol. I'm small time, so maybe engineering departments at major companies see it differently. Right now I can design a product that uses one of the USB standards and pick from literally thousands of different pre-made parts that handle all the silly things for me. If I'm fine with 5v/2a power, I can just drop a $.0292 (that's…

USB-C already got expanded to 240 watts, by the way.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#695

Post by brundolf »

I was going to upgrade my iPhone when the 14 came out, but when I found out about this I decided I could wait another year

It's insulting that I can charge my MacBook and iPad with a USB-C cable, but still have to carry an extra cable just for my phone (and meanwhile my partner with an Android phone doesn't). I'm so excited to be done with all that

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#696

Post by xmodem »

zagrebian wrote: post #694

> Apple no longer includes chargers in the box with iPhone purchases Is this true? So you buy a $1,000 device, but then the battery runs out, and you can’t use your $1,000 device unless you pay extra for a charger?

It is true, and as someone who owns several boxes of cables that have literally never been used, and has sent several more to e-waste, I wish it was the norm.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#697

Post by Dylan16807 »

8note wrote: post #666
xeyownt wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i doubt that wireless charging makes any difference on carbon footprint.

Wireless charging has all the components from non-wireless charging, then some extra pieces to handle the wireless parts. Where are you getting the manufacturing carbon savings to offset the loss of efficiency?

They're not saying it's zero, they're saying it doesn't make a difference.

Phones don't use much power.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#698

Post by Dylan16807 »

revelio wrote: post #611
baq wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don’t. They’re supporting both standard and proprietary. My MacBook Pro is connected to a multi port USB-C charger 99% of the time, which also charges my phone and my headset. MagSafe sits in the backpack when I need to work somewhere else than my desk, which doesn’t happen much. I’d argue it’s the best of both worlds. If it only supported MagSafe I’d be seriously annoyed.

You do see that we're discussing the underlying principle here, right? Please, try to put aside the specifics of the exact hardware and understand that what matters here is the EU's descent into attempting to centrally plan technology. This tendency isn't specific to power cables, it's a clear trend across many sectors.

The principle is "It supports the standard, and that is very good."

The problem with nonstandard connectors is when they get in the way of standard operation, not merely existing.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#699

Post by nullfield »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #628
xg15 wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an entire product category of "universal power adapters"[1] that wouldn't exist if GP's problem weren't an issue - and that was back when most adapters were just "dumb" power sources that provided a fixed voltage with fixed maximum current. There is no way to combine Micro USB, USBC, Thunderbolt and whatever Microsoft was doing with Surface devices into one adapter without separate electronics for each port.…

As someone who designs device, I would HATE having to use a proprietary connector/device/protocol. I'm small time, so maybe engineering departments at major companies see it differently. Right now I can design a product that uses one of the USB standards and pick from literally thousands of different pre-made parts that handle all the silly things for me. If I'm fine with 5v/2a power, I can just drop a $.0292 (that's…

Then last part, I think, is the question. They could certainly … use a port with the same form-factor and eMarkers to indicate capability, submitting their new technology to the USB-IF as a proposition for standard/enhancement.

We already have, though, a glut of the pre-made components you talk about that cut every corner as close as they can-hopefully not so far as to start a fire, because you can’t sell to dead customers, but up to then? Go for it.

The number of implementations of PD has been a mess, with various chunks of a particular profile unavailable, inconsistently, along with no meaningful distinction between various versions of PD on most devices. Cables are often trash, and there is no certification for them required at all, until you get up to the point that Intel will smack you with a folder of lawyers if you try to call something a Thunderbolt cable without getting it certified. So we can all go out and buy just Thunderbolt cables and be sure it’ll work with everything else, and it’s all well and good until our wallet notices the hit.

Surely it can’t be that hard to just … check that stuff meets the standard, as in cGMP-style adapted to electronics (to the extent it isn’t already). Right?

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#700

Post by sircastor »

zagrebian wrote: post #694

> Apple no longer includes chargers in the box with iPhone purchases Is this true? So you buy a $1,000 device, but then the battery runs out, and you can’t use your $1,000 device unless you pay extra for a charger?

I think the outrage about this is a little overstated. Most people buying a $1000+ phone already have a wall brick of some sort. As well as a number of other devices to plug USB into.

If you want the convenience of another brick or wireless charging, the option is there.

As self-serving as it is for Apple, it is keeping more chargers out of landfills, and reducing the cost of shipping that extra weight.

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