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EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

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631–640 of 868 posts

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am genuinely surprised Apple doesn’t just go portless in the EU out the gate.

I think there are still some potential obstacles like diagnostic devices (how to diagnose phone that doesn't boot without a cable?) and pricing - adding magsafe by default would probably raise costs

> how to diagnose phone that doesn't boot without a cable

Small, non-charging port? (Not Lightning. Smaller.) Or just a sealed device that needs non-contact diagnostics. If the EU pushes back, they can make one that’s used serviceable but floods. Maybe that’s a valid marker niche.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then it's very childish. It's the responsibility of legislators and regulators to be clear and precise -- to mean what they say and say what they mean. To "punish" a company for following a law, because of something the law doesn't actually say, is not what rule of law means, and would be a shameful thing. No company should have to intuit or guess what the government "really" meant, over and above what the law actual…

All laws have corner cases that are not covered. All laws. If laws were to cover every imaginable situation, they would be huge. Some already are... you have a whole bureaucracy working to understand them. That's why you often hear about the "spirit of the law" where humans know pretty well what the legislator is trying to accomplish, even though it's not fully codified in subsequent rules.

It seems like a pretty gross oversight to not specify charging speeds if the government truly cares about it to the point they plan to take legal action against companies who fail to correctly read the minds of legislators.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU absolutely did not force micro-usb. It was a strongly worded suggestion at a time when it seems we were already moving that way.

And everyone but Apple embraced the original specification[0]. Given Apple's previous moves, a heavier hand seems warranted. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply

To be fair to Apple, micro-USB was an inferior standard to lightning.

Lightning is a more durable design (in terms of plug/unplug cycles), had higher power capacity originally, and was reversible.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is simply not true. Laws can be written exceptionally clearly, and very often are. And the "spirit of the law" is a fallacy, which your sentence exposes when you write: > "the legislator is trying to accomplish" Because yes, there is absolutely intent with a single legislator. But there is no such thing as intent or spirit for a legislature (or committee). A legislature can pass a law, say 51 to 49, where every…

> Again, the "spirit of the law" is a fallacy. It's an illusion people would like to believe, but it doesn't exist. You might want to tell that to multiple judges who rule daily on the spirit of the law. TBH, I don't think that you know how the law works better than judges and magistrates do. You know what a loophole is, right?

> You might want to tell that to multiple judges who rule daily on the spirit of the law.

It’s not a judge ruling on a case that is sending this letter to Apple.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then it's very childish. It's the responsibility of legislators and regulators to be clear and precise -- to mean what they say and say what they mean. To "punish" a company for following a law, because of something the law doesn't actually say, is not what rule of law means, and would be a shameful thing. No company should have to intuit or guess what the government "really" meant, over and above what the law actual…

> But some kind of "warning" to "do something we didn't say in the law" is just plain wrong. No. Acting in bad faith is what is wrong. If Apple doesn't like it, then they can shut down their business in the EU. Companies acting in bad faith should be explicitly punished, to an extra degree, that is intentionally designed to hurt them. We have this right, to use laws, in a society, to punish bad faith actors. If you d…

> No. Acting in bad faith is what is wrong.

Do you have explicit evidence that Apple is acting in bad faith or are we merely inferring this?

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point re dangerous fakes, but I wonder how persuasive it is in practice. Ive occasionally seen teardowns of fire-risk power blocks on hn, but (genuine question, because idk) is that a mainstream concern?

I bought a 100W Apple MacBook charger from Amazon. After using it for a few hours, it has a burnt smell. I can't be the only one that experienced this.

If its an oem charger them I'm not surprised at all. Imo its just not worth the risk.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#637
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the whole world adopted this stance maybe I wouldn’t an overflowing box of useless, obsolete cables. Maybe I wouldn’t need separate chargers and cables for my phone, tablet, ebook reader, and other assorted devices. The amount of waste produced because companies are incentivized to produce incompatible devices like charger cables is staggering. The additional cost burden on users is unnecessary. The theoretical be…

Can you help me understand what you're saying? It comes off as so over the top that I find it absurd, but maybe we just have different backgrounds/experience. 1) Companies are not incentivized to produce incompatible cables, the industry has done a remarkably good job of settling on basically a single standard, so the incentives seem to run counter to what you say. The major hold out introduced their own cable standa…

struggling to see how it's a "staggering" amount of waste

multiply the quite low volume of cable/adapter trash the average individual consumer has by the very large number of consumers. Now picture all that junk in a landfill taking up space and leaking various chemicals as the sun and weather slowly degrade all the plastics, glue etc.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#638
post #8

The EU stance and strictness on this is one of the things making me happy to be an EU citizen.

never understood the anti-regulatory vitriol expressed by normal people (that is people who would not directly benefit from the absence of regulation but actually have much to lose), especially in the US (but UK's Brexit ideology used the regulatory overreach accusation against the EU to "good" effect too - the "curved banana" absurdity).

from the food we eat, the medicine we take, the cars we drive, the planes we fly, the banks with bank with, and, dare I say, the digital technology we have, the quality of our experience relies 100% on there being strong, non-captured, informed, hands-on regulation that tries on an ongoing basis to correct market failures (for which there is a mountain of damning historical experience)

remove regulation and energy companies will put poison in your car tank and they will destroy the atmosphere, banks will fall apart and your life savings will evaporate, planes will be flown with minimal tests and collapse and you will be inside, techs will pilfer and sell your behavioral profile to the highest bidder

self-regulation is a tool that works in certain circumstances but definitely cannot be relied upon across the board. especially not in oligopolistic conditions where better alternatives will struggle to receive traction. especially not on the face of our economies having ignored entirely the environmental damage of throwaway electronic devices and plastic pollution

what is the risk of veering to the opposite side, actual regulatory overreach, that is somehow gratuitous and does not simply try to correct some market failure? At worst it may delay things here and there. Taking a step back and looking at the outcomes of "the move fast and break things" ideology, that might not be a bad thing at all

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#639
post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Micro usb is close to being the worst of all worlds.

Why? It's small, reasonably robust, easy to connect. The first time I got a USB-C device I was shocked at how elegant and well-engineered the connection felt. As consumer devices go, it's great. For context, I was a pro sound engineer in the film industry for many years, so I have lots of experience with industrial grade connectors and operating in hostile environmental conditions from heavy rain/marine environments…

Micro usb not C. The directional connector that gets crushed if you look at it funny.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#640

I'm confused. Either Apple is following the letter of the law or it isn't. I don't know what a "warning" from EU Industry Commissioner Thierry Breton is supposed to mean. Either the law says USB-C charging is required but doesn't say anything about charging speeds, or it does say something about charging speeds. In any case, Apple has a lot of lawyers and presumably they're following the law as written . I would assu…

In Europe the intent of the law can after a whole lot more

If your legal system relies on reading the minds of lawmakers to infer their intent then your legal system is effectively arbitrary since those lawmakers can claim they intended anything.
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