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EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

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Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#611

Post by revelio »

baq wrote: post #573
revelio wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes ... exactly ... they reintroduced a non-standard connector because people preferred it to the standard one. See the problem?

No, I don’t. They’re supporting both standard and proprietary. My MacBook Pro is connected to a multi port USB-C charger 99% of the time, which also charges my phone and my headset. MagSafe sits in the backpack when I need to work somewhere else than my desk, which doesn’t happen much. I’d argue it’s the best of both worlds. If it only supported MagSafe I’d be seriously annoyed.

You do see that we're discussing the underlying principle here, right? Please, try to put aside the specifics of the exact hardware and understand that what matters here is the EU's descent into attempting to centrally plan technology. This tendency isn't specific to power cables, it's a clear trend across many sectors.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#612

Post by throwaway049 »

revelio wrote: post #552
baq wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd be so much better... for Pfizer to sell to consumers individually for 10-100x the price!

The Commission staff who signed these contracts are clearly idiots. Why do you assume they aren't paying 10x what the natural market rate would have been? Pfizer realized the EU would sign literally anything to be able to say it was going to save the day by purchasing vaccines. That's the absolute perfect time to set prices well above what you normally could charge!

You're welcome to bring numbers rather than hand-waving to this argument.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#613

Post by anigbrowl »

wskinner wrote: post #585
heliostatic wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe we have found the economist. What's the electrical failure rate of every appliance in your home, and the associated risk of death by electrocution? If you don't know offhand, it might be that you are implicitly relying on UL standards to keep you safe and whole. Consumers don't have perfect information, so the risk is asymmetric. If you assume the market will sort out risk and quality so we don't need stand…

Many responses to my comment made the same argument, so I’ll just reply here. What do you see as the main safety differences between Lightning and USB-C? As both systems have been in use at scale for some time now, this should be easy enough to answer quantitatively. My understanding is that they offer equivalent safety, in spite of Lightning not having been standardized by the EU, but I may be wrong.

You're missing the point. It's not that Lightning is bad, it's probably great (I don't have any iThings to compare). But left to themselves, it's entirely plausible that Apple will just abandon it in a few years in favor of some exciting new technology called Laser or Quantum or Telluric. Sure, people will complain, but they'll upgrade because there are some other great new features on the iPhone 17, plus clinging to old stuff makes people feel poor.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#614

Post by blowski »

revelio wrote: post #598
blowski wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to eat salad this evening, but since I ate pizza for dinner last week, I realised there’s no point in me eating healthily tonight. Of course the EU can make bad decisions in one area without precluding them making good ones in others.

> Of course the EU can make bad decisions in one area without precluding them making good ones in others. That's the whole point: they cannot. You guys are missing the problem here. The exact same systems and people who made the bad decisions about masks and vaccines are the ones making the decisions about phone chargers. You can't say well obviously that decision was bad, but this one is good. Some of us recall that…

> You can't say well obviously that decision was bad, but this one is good.

I absolutely can and will say that.

A football manager can make bad decisions and lose 5-0, and yet the same manager can then win the next game with the same team. Furthermore, in the case of the EU, these are not even the same people, context, or decision.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#615

Post by iudqnolq »

crazygringo wrote: post #503
lelanthran wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what exactly is his "warning" about? Not sure about this particular one, but in general, this sort of warning is along the lines of "If you continue expending effort in subverting the spirit of the law, we shall tighten the regulations to such an extent that it will hurt you" . The world and their dog knew what the goal of the regulations were: if the goal is not met because "Apple has a lot of lawyers and presu…

Then it's very childish. It's the responsibility of legislators and regulators to be clear and precise -- to mean what they say and say what they mean. To "punish" a company for following a law, because of something the law doesn't actually say, is not what rule of law means, and would be a shameful thing. No company should have to intuit or guess what the government "really" meant, over and above what the law actual…

But this isn't punishment. It's a warning.

Apple is getting advance notice that they can either voluntarily comply or they might be required to comply in the future. Would you rather be surprised?

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#616

Post by dfawcus »

manuel_w wrote: post #8

The EU stance and strictness on this is one of the things making me happy to be an EU citizen.

Maybe, maybe not.

I've just bought some new iDevices _now_, in order that they come with Lightning ports, rather than the anticipated USB C on the next model.

Specifically because the Lightning port seems the more robust (and easily cleaned) of the two, for a device which will spend a significant chunk of the next 3-5 years in pockets, picking up lint and other dirt.

Relative charging and data transfer speeds seem less of an issue than the practical issues.

I've less concern about USB-C on laptops, tablets, etc. Simply because their operating environment will be less challenging.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#617

Post by anigbrowl »

TylerE wrote: post #593
baq wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember the world before micro USB chargers and it was a disaster only mitigated by regulation. Calling it trivial is missing the forest from the trees. It was a good decision and it's good to finally see an end to this madness after 15 years of 'Who has a Nokia/Samsung/Sony charger?' to 'Who has the USB a/b/c/iPhone cable?' to hopefully 'who has a charger?' in five years. Humanity does not have an alternative to…

Micro usb is close to being the worst of all worlds.

Why? It's small, reasonably robust, easy to connect. The first time I got a USB-C device I was shocked at how elegant and well-engineered the connection felt. As consumer devices go, it's great.

For context, I was a pro sound engineer in the film industry for many years, so I have lots of experience with industrial grade connectors and operating in hostile environmental conditions from heavy rain/marine environments to desert dust storms. There are times when I go straight to industrial/military manufacturing specifications, but USB-C is still great.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#618

Post by nickpp »

VonGallifrey wrote: post #492
nickpp wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to jump out of the plane, please pick a provider that serves skydivers. Do not try to open the door of a regular plane from a normal airline. Moreover, please do not try to make it illegal to have airlines that don't allow opening the door during mid-flight. It makes flying more dangerous for all of us, especially those who don't happen to have a parachute around. No one is forcing you to stop loading wha…

The question is more: Why the fuck do you care if Apple allows sideloading or not. It is a feature you do not have to use and (if Apple implements sideloading) you probably would need to explicitly activate. Just leave the option off, but instead you are here saying the option should not exist for anyone. Those that are reluctant to use it can just ignore it. WHY? I should be able to load anything on any phone THAT I…

So you want the ideological argument then? Well let's see if we can find the various freedom's borders here.

You deserve the freedom to do whatever you want with you device, of course. Jailbreak it if you want. Or throw it away and get another on the free market.

Apple is a private company. They deserve the freedom to create and market a device with the tradeoffs, features and limitations they see fit. Locked down, if they can manage to. Because they are not selling just a device. They are actually selling access to a bunch of services, a platform, a walled garden if you want, for which the device is the entry point, the interface.

And, finally, I deserve the freedom of choice. To choose between open platforms and closed, safe ones, to have both options on the market.

Like when looking for a home: you can buy in the middle of nowhere (and do what you want), rent (and have very limited rights) or buy in a gated community and have certain rights but not unlimited freedom. Because this is true Liberty: when others can freely choose to do things we don't agree with. Like under Capitalism: you can have communist Coops, but under communism you can't have private companies...

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#619

Post by NickBusey »

hef19898 wrote: post #488
aetherson wrote: post #477

I think Apple should just make USB-C the norm for iPhones. But the idea that a trans-national government over 750M people should be trying to regulate in this level of detail is just obviously a recipe for disaster. For every one time they successfully push a company to do something correct -- but ultimately trivial, like this thing -- there are going to be 10 cases where some bureaucrat makes a bad decision and they…

And now think about all the normed parts you encounter everyday: screws, material, plugs, tools, fuel... All of those stabdards have been enforced at one time. Including adminiszartive commitees, staffed mostly by industry (!), to revise them and keep them updated. Edit: One can make the case about the roman empire, and some really old civilization in India I am too lazy to look up, building quite impressive empires…

Citation needed for the claim that governments enforce standards for screws. Maybe in the stuff they buy, but that’s not the same thing.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#620

Post by anigbrowl »

revelio wrote: post #552
baq wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd be so much better... for Pfizer to sell to consumers individually for 10-100x the price!

The Commission staff who signed these contracts are clearly idiots. Why do you assume they aren't paying 10x what the natural market rate would have been? Pfizer realized the EU would sign literally anything to be able to say it was going to save the day by purchasing vaccines. That's the absolute perfect time to set prices well above what you normally could charge!

Seems like a problem with Pfizer exploiting its monopoly position to hold public health hostage as much as bureaucrats choosing to have a signed contract with an overly-generous safety margin over getting the best possible price over some unknown timeframe.
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