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EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

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Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#541

Post by detourdog »

irusensei wrote: post #483
ohgodplsno wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In keeping in line with your stance, I hope that you are also uncomfortable with the government mandating your power sockets, your lightbulb plugs, the 120V/240 running through your power lines, the pipings running through your house, the bands used by phones, and much more. That, or you could accept that USBC is fine and that there is absolutely no needed improvement that cannot be done in the form of USB-C. Slappin…

> That, or you could accept that Serial SCSI is fine and that there is absolutely no needed improvement that cannot be done in the form of Serial SCSI. Slapping magnets on Serial SCSI is not prohibited if that's what your heart desires. There.

I was going to make the same argument using parallel.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#542

Post by oasisbob »

aetherson wrote: post #477

I think Apple should just make USB-C the norm for iPhones. But the idea that a trans-national government over 750M people should be trying to regulate in this level of detail is just obviously a recipe for disaster. For every one time they successfully push a company to do something correct -- but ultimately trivial, like this thing -- there are going to be 10 cases where some bureaucrat makes a bad decision and they…

> But the idea that a trans-national government over 750M people should be trying to regulate in this level of detail is just obviously a recipe for disaster

Why? Standards harmonization has big upsides too.

For example, the EU PPE safety standards are so good that there aren't even North American equivalents for many products.

If you buy a climbing carabiner in the US, it's being tested according to a test procedure defined by the same EU bureaucracy you deride.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#543

Post by gtirloni »

crazygringo wrote: post #503
lelanthran wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what exactly is his "warning" about? Not sure about this particular one, but in general, this sort of warning is along the lines of "If you continue expending effort in subverting the spirit of the law, we shall tighten the regulations to such an extent that it will hurt you" . The world and their dog knew what the goal of the regulations were: if the goal is not met because "Apple has a lot of lawyers and presu…

Then it's very childish. It's the responsibility of legislators and regulators to be clear and precise -- to mean what they say and say what they mean. To "punish" a company for following a law, because of something the law doesn't actually say, is not what rule of law means, and would be a shameful thing. No company should have to intuit or guess what the government "really" meant, over and above what the law actual…

All laws have corner cases that are not covered. All laws.

If laws were to cover every imaginable situation, they would be huge. Some already are... you have a whole bureaucracy working to understand them.

That's why you often hear about the "spirit of the law" where humans know pretty well what the legislator is trying to accomplish, even though it's not fully codified in subsequent rules.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#544

Post by baq »

aetherson wrote: post #477

I think Apple should just make USB-C the norm for iPhones. But the idea that a trans-national government over 750M people should be trying to regulate in this level of detail is just obviously a recipe for disaster. For every one time they successfully push a company to do something correct -- but ultimately trivial, like this thing -- there are going to be 10 cases where some bureaucrat makes a bad decision and they…

I remember the world before micro USB chargers and it was a disaster only mitigated by regulation. Calling it trivial is missing the forest from the trees. It was a good decision and it's good to finally see an end to this madness after 15 years of 'Who has a Nokia/Samsung/Sony charger?' to 'Who has the USB a/b/c/iPhone cable?' to hopefully 'who has a charger?' in five years.

Humanity does not have an alternative to bureaucrats because lassez-faire markets optimize for maximum company profits over all time spans instead of consumer convenience.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#545

Post by Auracle »

Moldoteck wrote: post #359
jackvezkovic wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This EU regulation diminishes the incentive of researching and developing a new technology in this area. This is a fact. And no, innovation usually does not come from a bunch of companies sitting down to cooperate on a new version. First there is individual innovation, then there is consolidation, even if these come with changes from the original.

We had a fkin usb-c with godspeed of data transfer and 120-240W transfer and is universally adopted across different devices and brands and Apple still is using a fkin usb 2 with proprietary connector. There is innovation, Apple decided it's users don't need that to sell them overpriced accessories

Lightning is capable of faster speeds. They just (probably rightly) decided it wasn’t worth the cost to put that in their phones when basically nobody transfers data on their phone using a cable. I believe one iPad had it before they switched to usb-c.

Obviously HN readers are the exception.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#546

Post by baq »

revelio wrote: post #513
aetherson wrote: post #477

I think Apple should just make USB-C the norm for iPhones. But the idea that a trans-national government over 750M people should be trying to regulate in this level of detail is just obviously a recipe for disaster. For every one time they successfully push a company to do something correct -- but ultimately trivial, like this thing -- there are going to be 10 cases where some bureaucrat makes a bad decision and they…

[flagged]

It'd be so much better... for Pfizer to sell to consumers individually for 10-100x the price!

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#547

Post by MagicMoonlight »

aetherson wrote: post #477

I think Apple should just make USB-C the norm for iPhones. But the idea that a trans-national government over 750M people should be trying to regulate in this level of detail is just obviously a recipe for disaster. For every one time they successfully push a company to do something correct -- but ultimately trivial, like this thing -- there are going to be 10 cases where some bureaucrat makes a bad decision and they…

>They're saying we can't put sawdust in bread, if they're that interested in a small product like that then what's to stop them banning lead in toys?

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#548

Post by trailingComma »

taf2 wrote: post #118

What happens when there is a better USB-C plug - isn't there a concern that locking into the current standard means in 50 years the EU is still stuck. I imagine we're in uncharted territory given in less then my lifetime USB was invented and has gone through at least 14 iterations e.g. it's been changing very fast. Unfortunately I fear even asking this question probably angers some, but I think it's an interesting qu…

If an advancement in plug capabilities is enough of a value-add for users, then the mobile will have both.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#550

Post by mort96 »

revelio wrote: post #331
viraptor wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the regulation is different now, a custom dongle won't be allowed this time. > What if Apple now comes out with a new standard much better than usb-c for their newest iPhone? Then they go to other manufacturers and say "we have a new, much better idea. we should collaborate on it, so that it's standardised and we can all use it next year". Then they all ship it in Europe and we all have a much better connector.…

Apple will certainly jump at the chance to spend money and time subsidizing its competitors research costs, in return for absolutely no competitive advantage. That's definitely what motivates people in the real world. Reality check: this approach means the rest of the world will have better tech whilst what's sold in the EU remains frozen in time.

Apple has been known for doing a whole bunch of R&D which affects the industry. Hell, they were heavily involved in USB-C, and got no competitive advantage from that R&D spending – they just got the opportunity to make better products. Same with WebGPU and other web standards (and, well, there's the freely available WebKit!).

"Companies won't invest R&D into making freely available standards because if it's freely available it's not a competitive advantage" is clearly not something which bears out in the real world.

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