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EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

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Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#481
post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, let’s waste space that could be used by battery and compromise water/dust proofing by install another port.

If you can have one water/dust proof port you can have two. How about making phones thicker again? More place for a battery, less risk of the next bend gate. That's a bogus debate because there are more than enough possibilities.

> If you can have one water/dust proof port you can have two.

I don't think any port is 100% water/dust proof. The more "openings" you add, the worse the water/dust proofing of the device.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if the whole world adopted this kind of regulatory stance, there would be much less incentive to invent that better cable because you now have huge regulatory bodies that may block its adoption and thus mean most of that work was money and time wasted. This kind of thing may tilt the risk / reward of research towards the riskier end of the spectrum. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing— just that it’s not without cons…

> But if the whole world adopted this kind of regulatory stance, there would be much less incentive to invent that better cable because you now have huge regulatory bodies that may block its adoption and thus mean most of that work was money and time wasted. Actually, the only incentive left is to make significantly better cables; the incentive to make marginal "improvements" in order to achieve vendor lock-in is rem…

Thank you for exposing my thoughts in better words than I could.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lightning cable has whatever you want on the other end. The only thing needed is a cable. I only want 1 port on my phone. I don't really care what that port is. I'm very uncomfortable with government mandated ports.

In keeping in line with your stance, I hope that you are also uncomfortable with the government mandating your power sockets, your lightbulb plugs, the 120V/240 running through your power lines, the pipings running through your house, the bands used by phones, and much more. That, or you could accept that USBC is fine and that there is absolutely no needed improvement that cannot be done in the form of USB-C. Slappin…

> That, or you could accept that Serial SCSI is fine and that there is absolutely no needed improvement that cannot be done in the form of Serial SCSI. Slapping magnets on Serial SCSI is not prohibited if that's what your heart desires.

There.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#484

Do you think Apple intended to stick with Lightning forever? They were just taking their own sweet time. The fact that their other products switched a couple of years ago should make this obvious. Of course the EU will crow when the next iPhone has USB-C worldwide. I doubt this has had a significant impact on Apples internal planning. If any. It seems to me this will be more significant post USB-C and it's much more…

> do you think Apple intended to stick with Lightning forever? What?? Of course they did. Why do you think they are even considering USBC? Apple has zero incentive to use a common cable format; I'm sure they rake in money with their proprietary apple-only connectors. Look at magsafe. Changed it twice so everyone had to get a whole new set of chargers. Sure, they changed it to C now, but I'm guessing that's just becau…

> Look at magsafe. Changed it twice so everyone had to get a whole new set of chargers.

You can still use USB-C for charging macbooks that have the new Magsafe, just like you could with any macbooks since their introduction of USB-C.

Not sure what you were trying to say about everyone suddenly needing to get a new set of chargers either. I have two different M1 macbooks in my household (one from my workplace, one personal), charging both primarily using Magsafe, and have spent exactly zero dollars on "a whole new set of chargers". The magsafe charging cable that came in the box with the device seems very sturdy and has shown zero signs of issues in the past almost-2 years. Never felt compelled to purchase another magsafe cable either. And the new Magsafe cable has USB-C on the other end, so I can use it with any charging brick, and it will work just as well as with the Apple ones (provided the brick can output enough charging power to deliver the full charging speed).

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe to put you mind a little bit at ease anecdotally, I never had a USB-c plug or socket fail on me even with intense (ab)use. The same is true for my immediate family It probably happens though. I had cheap-o cables break but this is hardly the fault of usb-c

> I had cheap-o cables break USB-C is supposedly designed in such a way that the (cheap) cable is more likely to break, not the (expensive) port.

It is. The springs which hold the cable in are in the plug, whereas they are in the socket for lighting. These springs are effectively consumable components.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#486
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the whole world adopted this stance maybe I wouldn’t an overflowing box of useless, obsolete cables. Maybe I wouldn’t need separate chargers and cables for my phone, tablet, ebook reader, and other assorted devices. The amount of waste produced because companies are incentivized to produce incompatible devices like charger cables is staggering. The additional cost burden on users is unnecessary. The theoretical be…

Can you help me understand what you're saying? It comes off as so over the top that I find it absurd, but maybe we just have different backgrounds/experience. 1) Companies are not incentivized to produce incompatible cables, the industry has done a remarkably good job of settling on basically a single standard, so the incentives seem to run counter to what you say. The major hold out introduced their own cable standa…

There is an entire product category of "universal power adapters"[1] that wouldn't exist if GP's problem weren't an issue - and that was back when most adapters were just "dumb" power sources that provided a fixed voltage with fixed maximum current.

There is no way to combine Micro USB, USBC, Thunderbolt and whatever Microsoft was doing with Surface devices into one adapter without separate electronics for each port.

> 1) Companies are not incentivized to produce incompatible cables

They absolutely are. I figure, it's not even greed (most of the adapters were included with the devices) but simply "designer convenience". It's certainly easier to design a device if you can choose an arbitrary input voltage and max power for your device.

It'll also certainly make your life as a manufacturer easier if you only have to provide warranty for devices that are run with your own power adapter.

Also, Apple in particular seems to have an aversion to follow any kind of standard not set by themselves if they can in any way avoid it. See Lightning, Thunderbolt, MagSafe, etc.

Doesn't mean this is better for anyone else except from the manufacturer.

> 2.) Would the amount of charging cables you have purchased in your lifetime even fill up one regular-sized (13 gallon-ish) trash bag?

I haven't measured but this isn't the point for me. But it used to be that the amount of adapters that you had to take with you were increasing: I.e. if laptop, phone and ipod all had different adapers and you were travelling, you had to take three of them with you.

> All my consumer electronics devices have stopped needing their own charger for years now.

Yes, so have mine, thanks to the EU regulation.

[1] https://www.kaufland.de/product/440138880/

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#487
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law explicitly states that it has to be reviewed every couple of years to determine whether USB-C it is still the best choice, or there has been sufficient technological progress to warrant a switch to a newer standard. The fear for a "lock-in" is completely unfounded, as the EU previously quasi-mandated Micro USB and switching to USB-C was no issue whatsoever. Besides, nothing is stopping manufacturers from incl…

But if the whole world adopted this kind of regulatory stance, there would be much less incentive to invent that better cable because you now have huge regulatory bodies that may block its adoption and thus mean most of that work was money and time wasted. This kind of thing may tilt the risk / reward of research towards the riskier end of the spectrum. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing— just that it’s not without cons…

[dead]

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#488

I think Apple should just make USB-C the norm for iPhones. But the idea that a trans-national government over 750M people should be trying to regulate in this level of detail is just obviously a recipe for disaster. For every one time they successfully push a company to do something correct -- but ultimately trivial, like this thing -- there are going to be 10 cases where some bureaucrat makes a bad decision and they…

And now think about all the normed parts you encounter everyday: screws, material, plugs, tools, fuel... All of those stabdards have been enforced at one time. Including adminiszartive commitees, staffed mostly by industry (!), to revise them and keep them updated.

Edit: One can make the case about the roman empire, and some really old civilization in India I am too lazy to look up, building quite impressive empires running on engineering and other stabdards across gigantic portions of thebthen known earth. That neother of those exists anymore is hardly the fault of those norms.

Oh, nor to forget: measurement units.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The lightning cable has whatever you want on the other end. The lightning cable has whatever Apple wants on the other end.

So far so good for me. Please share what you need on the end of a lightening cable that can't be found.

More than 30 watts of power, more than USB 2.0 data rate, etc...

These apple fanatics are so funny when they keep insisting that their shitty 2010 tech is bleeding edge.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The regulations get updated, you aren't stuck on usb-c. Isn't there a chicken and egg problem there - no one will release products with new power interfaces, because they aren't releasable in Europe. I suppose such products might get released first in the US, but which large tech company if going to ignore the EU market when releasing important products?

> Isn't there a chicken and egg problem there - no one will release products with new power interfaces Yes, that's the point. Instead of anyone releasing products with new power interfaces the goal is to have industry-wide discussion on adopting new standards for everyone. I think it's reasonable and only a positive thing. If the industry will decide that USB-C isn't enough they will revise the standard.

I hear this point a lot from standardization-inclined folks, and strongly disagree.

Standardization works to turn already existing solution into a widespread commodity. Standardization does not work efficiently to invent new better ways of doing things.

The only viable driver for innovation is experimentation, not making new ‘better’ standards on paper inside some walled “industry” committee.

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