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EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

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Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#331

Post by revelio »

viraptor wrote: post #317
auggierose wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the regulation now different for usb-C than it was for microusb? In that, Apple could ignore microusb, and still sell their phones in Europe? What if Apple now comes out with a new standard much better than usb-c for their newest iPhone? They could not ship it now in Europe. So, all these examples referring to microusb are just really sloppy thinking. Which is exactly what I would expect from a huge bureaucracy…

Yes, the regulation is different now, a custom dongle won't be allowed this time. > What if Apple now comes out with a new standard much better than usb-c for their newest iPhone? Then they go to other manufacturers and say "we have a new, much better idea. we should collaborate on it, so that it's standardised and we can all use it next year". Then they all ship it in Europe and we all have a much better connector.…

Apple will certainly jump at the chance to spend money and time subsidizing its competitors research costs, in return for absolutely no competitive advantage. That's definitely what motivates people in the real world.

Reality check: this approach means the rest of the world will have better tech whilst what's sold in the EU remains frozen in time.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#332

Post by ohgodplsno »

tinus_hn wrote: post #199
ohgodplsno wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.macrumors.com/2023/05/04/eu-warns-apple-about-li... Europe actually has some teeth. Playing dumb when Europe tells you "try me" is a sure way to be banned out of the common market. >And there is no way for the EU to appear credible and restrict this. And yet here we are.

> Europe actually has some teeth. Playing dumb when Europe tells you "try me" is a sure way to be banned out of the common market. It all remains to be seen, some EU Joe random hotshot issuing warnings is no more than that, warnings. If any action is to come from the EU side, it’ll be after years and years of legal wrangling and it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if Apples lawyers end up outsmarting some pompous EU coun…

Ah, yes, Thierry Breton, current European Commissioner for Internal Market who pushed for the Digital Markets Acts (that has Apple currently yielding and tucking its tail between its legs with 0 years of legal wrangling, allowing external app stores but just for Europe because it clearly doesn't care about its US customers) is a Pompous Councilman Joe Random Hotshot that gets outsmarted by Apple's US lawyers.

Sure, you go on and keep believing that :)

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#333

Post by WanderPanda »

manuel_w wrote: post #8

The EU stance and strictness on this is one of the things making me happy to be an EU citizen.

For me it’s the opposite, it ashames me to be an EU citizen. The problem with the EU is that it forces this kind of stuff on everyone instead of letting countries compete for the best policies. There is little/no feedback control hence it will drift down the usual decline of increasingly authoritarian systems. It‘s a shame because of the opportunity costs.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#334

Post by ohgodplsno »

ghaff wrote: post #227
tinus_hn wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Europe actually has some teeth. Playing dumb when Europe tells you "try me" is a sure way to be banned out of the common market. It all remains to be seen, some EU Joe random hotshot issuing warnings is no more than that, warnings. If any action is to come from the EU side, it’ll be after years and years of legal wrangling and it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if Apples lawyers end up outsmarting some pompous EU coun…

At the end of the day, if Apple needs to have a slightly modified design to accommodate EU regulations, that's a drop in the bucket. And if it's slightly inferior in some way, that's between EU citizens and their governments.

Apple has a single production line. If they drop Lightning for the EU, they drop Lightning for the whole world. Their entire margin strategy is based on having as few SKUs as possible. In the same way that GDPR made every single major US tech player comply and offer more or less the same tools for the rest of the world.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#335

Post by revelio »

stephc_int13 wrote: post #205
taf2 wrote: post #118

What happens when there is a better USB-C plug - isn't there a concern that locking into the current standard means in 50 years the EU is still stuck. I imagine we're in uncharted territory given in less then my lifetime USB was invented and has gone through at least 14 iterations e.g. it's been changing very fast. Unfortunately I fear even asking this question probably angers some, but I think it's an interesting qu…

Standards are good for everyone, even when very old and seemingly outdated. Being "locked" on a a few not awful standard connectors is a good thing. The Edison screw bulb is very simple, reliable, still used today even if I am sure that many companies would have invented more sophisticated standards over the years, I am glad they did not. I still use audio jack connectors as much as possible, and I think that the wor…

> Standards are good for everyone, even when very old and seemingly outdated.

This is definitely not the case. As an example, the Official Standard way to encode data structures in the 90s was ASN.1 from the ITU. Problem is, ASN.1 kinda sucked and so nobody uses it anymore outside of cryptography. Then the Official Standard became XML. Eventually people decided that also wasn't that great and switched to JSON, which is a totally unofficial standard defined by one guy.

Your approach / the EU approach would mean REST APIs would all need to be encoded with ASN.1 or XML.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#336

Post by philistine »

sokoloff wrote: post #318
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if the whole world adopted this kind of regulatory stance, there would be much less incentive to invent that better cable because you now have huge regulatory bodies Imagine you didnt have law on shape and voltage of ordinsry power plugs in a house, and if you buy a samsung power socket to ibstall in your house, you mist buy samsung fridge and samsung washing machine and samsung hair dryer

That brings up an interesting question: “Is NEMA 5-15 in fact standardized by force of law?”

I think you can make a legal arguement that the way the standards are enshrined in law and there are legal consequences for straying from agreed upon standards, that it is indeed standardized by force of law.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#337

Post by ohgodplsno »

RivieraKid wrote: post #329

I don't understand why USB-C doesn't use the Lightning form factor, which is clearly superior. It's smaller, simpler and more resistant to damage.

Mostly because Apple refuses to license anything that has to do with Lightning to the USB Consortium.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#338

Post by cassepipe »

christophilus wrote: post #228
crote wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law explicitly states that it has to be reviewed every couple of years to determine whether USB-C it is still the best choice, or there has been sufficient technological progress to warrant a switch to a newer standard. The fear for a "lock-in" is completely unfounded, as the EU previously quasi-mandated Micro USB and switching to USB-C was no issue whatsoever. Besides, nothing is stopping manufacturers from incl…

But if the whole world adopted this kind of regulatory stance, there would be much less incentive to invent that better cable because you now have huge regulatory bodies that may block its adoption and thus mean most of that work was money and time wasted. This kind of thing may tilt the risk / reward of research towards the riskier end of the spectrum. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing— just that it’s not without cons…

Come on, there can't be that much better of a cable in the future. You already have speeds that are instantaneous on one file and I bet the transfer time to transfer all your pictures an videos from your phone is under an hour, for an operation you are maybe doing once a year ? Time for a full charge is also probably under an hour, that's not unreasonable. Being standard is a better feature than speed.

Event if they double the speed, it can wait ten years and who knows in the speed may have quadruple by that next window.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#339

Post by s3p »

christophilus wrote: post #228
crote wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law explicitly states that it has to be reviewed every couple of years to determine whether USB-C it is still the best choice, or there has been sufficient technological progress to warrant a switch to a newer standard. The fear for a "lock-in" is completely unfounded, as the EU previously quasi-mandated Micro USB and switching to USB-C was no issue whatsoever. Besides, nothing is stopping manufacturers from incl…

But if the whole world adopted this kind of regulatory stance, there would be much less incentive to invent that better cable because you now have huge regulatory bodies that may block its adoption and thus mean most of that work was money and time wasted. This kind of thing may tilt the risk / reward of research towards the riskier end of the spectrum. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing— just that it’s not without cons…

This would not happen. HN users love to dream up scenarios that are confusingly out of touch with reality..

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#340

Post by justapassenger »

RivieraKid wrote: post #329

I don't understand why USB-C doesn't use the Lightning form factor, which is clearly superior. It's smaller, simpler and more resistant to damage.

Any data on it being more resistant to damage? From my anecdotal experience lighting connectors break more often.
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