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EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

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Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#241

Post by nonethewiser »

crote wrote: post #220
taf2 wrote: post #118

What happens when there is a better USB-C plug - isn't there a concern that locking into the current standard means in 50 years the EU is still stuck. I imagine we're in uncharted territory given in less then my lifetime USB was invented and has gone through at least 14 iterations e.g. it's been changing very fast. Unfortunately I fear even asking this question probably angers some, but I think it's an interesting qu…

The law explicitly states that it has to be reviewed every couple of years to determine whether USB-C it is still the best choice, or there has been sufficient technological progress to warrant a switch to a newer standard. The fear for a "lock-in" is completely unfounded, as the EU previously quasi-mandated Micro USB and switching to USB-C was no issue whatsoever. Besides, nothing is stopping manufacturers from incl…

> The law explicitly states that it has to be reviewed every couple of years to determine whether USB-C it is still the best choice, or there has been sufficient technological progress to warrant a switch to a newer standard.

But under these rules, wouldn’t that necessitate that a new standard develops and becomes the more popular one despite not being used because it can’t be sold in all the places that ban non USB C? How would you imagine that happening? It seems like in order for a new standard to catch on you can’t ban non USB C.

The more places that implement this non usb c ban the less a new standard can emerge. The regulation scales poorly in that regard.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#242

Post by crote »

dahfizz wrote: post #206
NikolaNovak wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's relevant, but I feel there's a good precedent already - didn't europe previously mandate Micro-USB, since like 2010?

No, this is a common misunderstanding. The EU previously issued a Memorandum of Understanding, which basically just asked phone manufacturer nicely to please use USB micro-B. There was no mandate or enforcement (obviously, because Apple never released a phone with micro-B). The USB-C law is an actual law which can't be ignored. The law will need to be updated when USB-D comes out.

If I recall correctly, the Memorandum of Understanding was basically "please come up with an industry-standard connector", not "use micro-B".

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#243

Post by alwayslikethis »

stephc_int13 wrote: post #205
taf2 wrote: post #118

What happens when there is a better USB-C plug - isn't there a concern that locking into the current standard means in 50 years the EU is still stuck. I imagine we're in uncharted territory given in less then my lifetime USB was invented and has gone through at least 14 iterations e.g. it's been changing very fast. Unfortunately I fear even asking this question probably angers some, but I think it's an interesting qu…

Standards are good for everyone, even when very old and seemingly outdated. Being "locked" on a a few not awful standard connectors is a good thing. The Edison screw bulb is very simple, reliable, still used today even if I am sure that many companies would have invented more sophisticated standards over the years, I am glad they did not. I still use audio jack connectors as much as possible, and I think that the wor…

I agree with the importance of standards, but..

The Edison screw works quite badly for LED bulbs commonly used today. The electronics are all buried in the base part, which has very limited cooling, so they get extra hot and kills the lightbulbs prematurely when the LEDs themselves last much longer. It is also not standardized w.r.t. voltages, power limits, etc, making it prone to user error.

The European and British plugs both have noticeable advantages compared to the American one, in that it is much harder to get shocked by them or cause arcing. Also, a universal plug would be much more helpful in a world with the same electric power systems everywhere, which is not the case.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#244

Post by detourdog »

croes wrote: post #223
taf2 wrote: post #118

What happens when there is a better USB-C plug - isn't there a concern that locking into the current standard means in 50 years the EU is still stuck. I imagine we're in uncharted territory given in less then my lifetime USB was invented and has gone through at least 14 iterations e.g. it's been changing very fast. Unfortunately I fear even asking this question probably angers some, but I think it's an interesting qu…

Because you can't have different ports on a smartphone? You aren't forced to use only USB-C but to provide at least USB-C without artificial disadvantages. Without those standards the users are stuck or need to rebuy all accessories.

The lightning cable has whatever you want on the other end. The only thing needed is a cable. I only want 1 port on my phone. I don't really care what that port is. I'm very uncomfortable with government mandated ports.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#245

Post by Jochim »

viktorcode wrote: post #87
raverbashing wrote: post #75

I plug my USB-C Android phone into any USB-C charger (including monitors, etc) and it charges rapidly Apple can go F themselves if that won't be the case with the iPhone

Apple devices do exactly the same, and has been for many years. I charge my stuff with a third party chargers, all I need is a lightning cable.

IIRC not all apple devices charge with lightning cables.

Even users entirely bought in to their ecosystem are forced to carry multiple types.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#246

Post by nozzlegear »

doikor wrote: post #232
throwaway50606 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then Facebook forces you to use their "web installer" that simply allows them to spy on everything you do on the phone :-)

The spying is still be illegal in EU without user consent no matter if it is technically possible or not.

But then for those of us not in the EU, Facebook et al suddenly have access to a plethora of data they didn’t have before via side loading thanks to a European law.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#247

Post by jws »

JeremyNT wrote: post #226
blurrybird wrote: post #109

As somebody who last night got an Apple stem out of their daughter's lightning port using a SIM card ejector tool, I'm torn. You can't do that (safely) with USB-C because of the female plug design.

Is this something that happens often for iPhones? I've never seen anything like it with USBC in my non-Apple household. Perhaps the "benefit" you describe is only relevant because the proprietary Apple cable design is so poor?

I've seen it a couple times, but not with Apple cables. Some of the 3rd party cables have the exterior metal of the connector just sort of snapped/crimped/pressed on and that pulls off to be left in the socket. You have to dig that out before you can put a cable in. To make things more confusing, the broken cable end usually goes in, so the user tells you "I only have one cable that works and it doesn't charge."

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#248

Post by megous »

makomk wrote: post #55
henearkr wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What technical progress. Don't you think that 20V and 240W that are the maximum for Power Delivery are enough to fast charge a smartphone? Even laptops use it!

It's not just a question of total power - smartphones have limited space and thermal budget for internal power conversion compared to laptops, which means that the fastest charging option often moves some of the work of converting to the correct voltage to the charger. (Also, I don't think 240W USB PD has really been adopted by anyone currently, and that's a spicy amount of current given the general quality of USB C…

Battery in the phone needs ~4.2V for charging. So you need conversion in the phone no matter what voltage you supply on the USB port.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#249

Post by rkagerer »

stephc_int13 wrote: post #205
taf2 wrote: post #118

What happens when there is a better USB-C plug - isn't there a concern that locking into the current standard means in 50 years the EU is still stuck. I imagine we're in uncharted territory given in less then my lifetime USB was invented and has gone through at least 14 iterations e.g. it's been changing very fast. Unfortunately I fear even asking this question probably angers some, but I think it's an interesting qu…

Standards are good for everyone, even when very old and seemingly outdated. Being "locked" on a a few not awful standard connectors is a good thing. The Edison screw bulb is very simple, reliable, still used today even if I am sure that many companies would have invented more sophisticated standards over the years, I am glad they did not. I still use audio jack connectors as much as possible, and I think that the wor…

But weren't those standards defacto? I share your penchant for the shape of a bulb socket and purposely bought a phone that still provides an audio jack... but afaik regulators never dictated those shapes.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#250

Post by frankfrankfrank »

vidarh wrote: post #185
frankfrankfrank wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m all for some kind of universality, but this authoritarian method does not strike me as a good idea. You lament their concern with fairness, by giving unfair advantages to the USB-C license holders/patent holders? I’m not even sure people understand that Apple also contributed heavily to the development of USB-C along with other companies, some of them European. The irony is that I believe the Lightning Connector,…

The EU tried the soft approach for many years, and Apple stubbornly refused to play. "This authoritarian method" of representing the populations they are meant to represent as part of a democratic society rather than letting companies continue to do what they want came with ample warning. EDIT: Someone asked about the mandate for it, and deleted, but worth pointing out that the EU parliament supported this with a maj…

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