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EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

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Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#161

Post by frankfrankfrank »

phist_mcgee wrote: post #120
echelon wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for this! Next up: make "side loading" apps a thing. Do it with these stipulations: 1. Make it easy, part of the normal flow. Not hidden in an obscure panel or behind three or four dialogues. 2. Make it non-scary (no negs from Apple saying you'll destroy your device or safety) 3. Make it so it isn't called something negative like "side loading", but a part of normal user behavior: "download app", "web insta…

And when old grandma gets hit with a fake banking app download that steals her life savings all will be right with the world as well?

Don’t worry, the EU apparatchiks have surely made themselves responsible for the consequences of their actions. It’s “Our Democracy”™ after all.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#162

Post by throwaway50606 »

simion314 wrote: post #153
phist_mcgee wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And when old grandma gets hit with a fake banking app download that steals her life savings all will be right with the world as well?

Stop with the FUD. I know you have a big imagination but the reality is that I can side load apps on Android, and all the big companies that push me t install their apps are using the official store and I never see random websites showing fake links to banking apps. Guess what apps I have to side load, the apps the Stores do not allow, like Huawei app for my solar panels(iOS users will have to use the website since n…

Android Play store doesn't have the same user protections as iOS Appstore. There is no reason to force sideload on Android because you can already spy on everything the user does with your Playstore apps (why would you even expect anything else from Google? The whole thing is set up for spying). That's not the case on iOS. You're comparing incomparable.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#163

Post by vladvasiliu »

raverbashing wrote: post #83
vladvasiliu wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of the time, you avoid problems of "PD device hierarchy" by using a proper charger (i.e. a device that only has the functionality to charge other devices). The problem is with the "most", which means you can't count on it. I have usb-c headphones that can be charged with my hp usb-c laptop charger (which is a "proper charger", I guess, since it only does charging) or from a regular computer usb port. They don'…

> My usb-c ecig won't charge from that Sounds like a "Fake" usb-c. Actually not fake because the usb-c is the connector, not the standard behind it So I'm not surprised it doesn't charge, it's a "pretend USB-C" thing from China

Sure, as a technically inclined user, I can understand that.

It actually is a Chinese brand, but not some one-off brand bought off Ali Express. It's a device bought from a reputable store in France with a name that I've seen around for several years (Vaporesso). Sure, that fact, in and of itself, is not enough to guarantee that corners haven't been cut and that the product is actually up to spec.

But, as a random consumer, how am I to know that it's "a pretend USB-C"? It looks exactly the same as my headphones, comes with the exact same-looking cable. There are no markings on it. The usb-c ports on my laptop have a bolt icon next to them, but its usb-c charger doesn't have any marking. They also don't say it shouldn't be used with anything other than the laptop it came with, and actually is able to charge my headphones and my mom's usb-c phone.

Even though I've kinda followed the talks about PD, negotiation, etc. its still not clear to me why this particular combination doesn't work. I was under the impression that, lacking any negotiation, ports should default to the basic 5V 500mA. So my fat laptop charger should be able to at least trickle-charge the e-cig.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#164

Post by garganzol »

dwighttk wrote: post #127

Who cares? I haven’t charged my phone through the port in years.

If you were somewhere in the woods, your would prefer to not waste the power from you solar energy source on heating the surroundings with EM radiation, so you would use a cable instead of a wireless charging. This is why the cable charging is here to stay and is not going anywhere.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#165

Post by throwaway50606 »

mrtksn wrote: post #150
throwaway50606 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know how to change the laws if nobody is allowed to try different things (thus innovate)? USB-C didn't come from nowhere, and it wasn't a given that it's better than MicroUSB - first the market tested it, then it became a standard. EU laws have worldwide effects, there's no land of cable freedom anymore.

EU laws don't expand beyond EU. EU consist about 5% of the population, 95% can have whatever they like. Yes, there's Brussels effect but that effect work when the trouble of designing or producing something else is not worth it. Also, you are not banned from engineering other solutions. The police isn't going to knock on the doors of engineers who are suspected to develop better charging cables :)

EU is the second largest market in the world. Of course everything is going to be made in a way that's sellable in the EU.

> Also, you are not banned from engineering other solutions. The police isn't going to knock on the doors of engineers who are suspected to develop better charging cables :)

We are discussing under an article where the regulator has sent a "stern warning" to a company. I don't think what you're saying makes sense. If I tried to sell my better plug in my home market, the police would come knocking.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#166

Post by mrtksn »

nickpp wrote: post #158
mrtksn wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU laws don't expand beyond EU. EU consist about 5% of the population, 95% can have whatever they like. Yes, there's Brussels effect but that effect work when the trouble of designing or producing something else is not worth it. Also, you are not banned from engineering other solutions. The police isn't going to knock on the doors of engineers who are suspected to develop better charging cables :)

There are now zero incentives to research and develop better plugs in the EU since it is illegal to market devices sporting them instead of USB-C.

The rest of the world can develop the superior charging cable plugs and we can use this thing called internet to find out about it.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#167

Post by nickpp »

bluescrn wrote: post #155
echelon wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for this! Next up: make "side loading" apps a thing. Do it with these stipulations: 1. Make it easy, part of the normal flow. Not hidden in an obscure panel or behind three or four dialogues. 2. Make it non-scary (no negs from Apple saying you'll destroy your device or safety) 3. Make it so it isn't called something negative like "side loading", but a part of normal user behavior: "download app", "web insta…

Let’s stop using the ‘side loading’ euphemism and just call it ‘loading’. Let us load our own code.

Most people do not have "their own code". Instead it is your code you want me and my grandmother to load and I simply do not want to, unless you go through Apple's hurdles to check and verify it.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#168

Post by rocketbop »

epolanski wrote: post #125
taf2 wrote: post #118

What happens when there is a better USB-C plug - isn't there a concern that locking into the current standard means in 50 years the EU is still stuck. I imagine we're in uncharted territory given in less then my lifetime USB was invented and has gone through at least 14 iterations e.g. it's been changing very fast. Unfortunately I fear even asking this question probably angers some, but I think it's an interesting qu…

The regulations get updated, you aren't stuck on usb-c. What EU wants to avoid is Apple giving "unfair" advantages to their own chargers (which could either come from Apple making better chargers or artificially slowing third party ones) defeating the purpose of having less electronic waste.

> The regulations get updated, you aren't stuck on usb-c.

Isn't there a chicken and egg problem there - no one will release products with new power interfaces, because they aren't releasable in Europe.

I suppose such products might get released first in the US, but which large tech company if going to ignore the EU market when releasing important products?

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#169

Post by bantunes »

can16358p wrote: post #152

"You have to use my designated charge port on your own device with your own adapter and change your own designs for that if you want to sell your device. We don't care if it's a step backwards in terms of design and internal space where every cubic millimeter is utilized." Not to defend Apple or anything but EU is being the mafia here.

The early 2000s were a mess with company-specific cables and USB was forced upon them and made things much simpler, Apple is just the last holdout. Forcing 3rd-party manufacturers to buy chips from them for their devices to work with Apple phones feels like the real protection racket to me.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#170

Post by mrtksn »

throwaway50606 wrote: post #165
mrtksn wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU laws don't expand beyond EU. EU consist about 5% of the population, 95% can have whatever they like. Yes, there's Brussels effect but that effect work when the trouble of designing or producing something else is not worth it. Also, you are not banned from engineering other solutions. The police isn't going to knock on the doors of engineers who are suspected to develop better charging cables :)

EU is the second largest market in the world. Of course everything is going to be made in a way that's sellable in the EU. > Also, you are not banned from engineering other solutions. The police isn't going to knock on the doors of engineers who are suspected to develop better charging cables :) We are discussing under an article where the regulator has sent a "stern warning" to a company. I don't think what you're s…

Not necessarily. If you come up with such a superior plug, you can easily have it sold on the 1st largest market in the world.

Not everything has to be sold in EU, there are plenty of things not available across all markets.

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