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ACM Software System Award Given to seL4 Microkernel

awards.acm.org

41–50 of 66 posts

Re: ACM Software System Award Given to seL4 Microkernel

#41
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought commingling classification/user clearance levels on the same hardware fell out of favor a while ago, because of side channels (with speculative execution being the final nail in the coffin.) Isn't seL4 more used for things like data diodes, cryptographic equipment and military hardware? Stuff that you need to keep from getting hacked or malfunctioning, but not time-shared with untrusted users.

Nah, multilevel security fell out of favor because no large commercial vendor could do it. They retracted the requirements over a decade ago because it prevented Microsoft and IBM from bidding on government contracts to “secure” their infrastructure.

Well, Microsoft made some half-assed runs at Orange Book compliance (e.g. Windows NT without floppies/CDs...or networking), but Trusted AIX was a real thing with real users. Having been involved in a couple of MLS Unix implementations, IMO it didn't fall out of favour because no vendor could do it, it fell out of favour because no one could effectively run it in production. The admin overhead of a 'real' TCSEC validate system is formidable, and at some point someone decided 'useable with admins with 6 months of training (e.g. privates and corporals)' was more important than 'checks all the boxes', and the boxes that needed to be checked changed.

Re: ACM Software System Award Given to seL4 Microkernel

#42
post #36
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google's Fuchsia OS uses a microkernel: https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/concepts/kernel

Microkernels by themselves are not special; SeL4 is because it's proven to be secure.

It's proven correct against specification. That's not the same thing as 'secure' (although it helps).

Re: ACM Software System Award Given to seL4 Microkernel

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn't use sel4 in the secure enclave, but instead another l4 variant that isn't formally verified. And they've made a lot of pretty deep changes for example adding native support for Mach-O files.

What is a macho file?

It’s the executable file format for macOS/iOS/*OS, analogous to ELF or PE.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach-O

Re: ACM Software System Award Given to seL4 Microkernel

#45
post #2

Congratulations, well deserved! Also in memoriam Jochen Liedtke [0], who started the L4 kernel project and rekindled research in microkernels by showing that they don't have to be slow ('slow' as in Mach's long IPC latencies). [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jochen_Liedtke

It's such a shame he died so young.

Re: ACM Software System Award Given to seL4 Microkernel

#47
post #9

Makes me wonder when we finally get proper government funding of FOSS projects.

A lot of the seL4 work was actually funded by several nations' taxpayers, and developed by the late Trustworthy Systems group at Data61 (formerly NICTA). Sadly, they were disbanded a few years back and had to rush to set up a standalone seL4 Foundation: https://microkerneldude.org/2020/04/07/the-sel4-foundation-w...

> seL4 is the result of big investments. Firstly by the Australian tax payers, who (through NICTA) funded its creation, and (through NICTA and then CSIRO’s Data61) continued supporting it. Over the past 6 years, US taxpayers (mostly through DARPA, but also other parts of the DoD as well as DHS) invested a lot in completing and extending the verification story, as well as deploying on real-world systems. And most recently, HENSOLDT Cyber funded verification of the RISC-V port of the kernel.

Re: ACM Software System Award Given to seL4 Microkernel

#49
post #32

Is there a seL4 implementation targeted at, like, dinking around on some desktop, or is this stuff mostly interesting to embedded-ish folks?

Maybe an ARM desktop once multi core is implemented and verified. Verifying the whole thing for x86 seems scary. It is a kind of undertaking that gives normal people a glimpse of how ADHD is. It is a huge task and I would not know how to structure it, where to start and how to predict and plan all the intermediate steps.

>Maybe an ARM desktop once multi core is implemented and verified.

The verification story is currently stronger with RISC-V.

Considering close cooperation between seL4 and RISC-V projects, ARM aka the legacy architecture is unlikely to be a priority anytime soon.

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