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Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

bloomberg.com

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Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#71

Post by anigbrowl »

mdasen wrote: post #39

I'm guessing that the tips is more a bargaining tactic than a real ask. They're also asking for 45 paid days off for "bereavement leave" including for the death of a close friend or pet. 45 days of paid leave would be over 2 months off. It seems unlikely that a company would consider 2 months paid leave for the death of a pet. Imagine employees buying goldfish.

That's no excuse. 'No harm in asking' BS requests are antithetical to serious negotiation. It doesn't matter what side it comes from. This isn't just a union v corporation thing, it shows up in all sorts of contexts like lowballers on Craigslist or bid sniping on Ebay. Almost invariably it's simple greed.

Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#72

Post by anigbrowl »

whimsicalism wrote: post #27

Organizing against a company like Apple is pretty much exclusively about how you can leverage media attention to get concessions. Apple has no problem locking you out and replacing, except for the negative media & consequential consumer impact. So it seems like it would make sense to ask for things that the customer would actually like/be okay with, like basic higher pay, some sort of seniority structure maybe, etc.

Agreed, but it does not make sense to add in absurd/burner requests and then attract all kinds of bad PR for your previously serious negotiating effort.

Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#73

Post by badwolf »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #45

If you have never worked a tipped job, let me clue you into something: You make substantially more than other jobs of the same skill level. I'm not talking edge cases like waffle house in rural Arkansas, if you work for tips somewhere where people are, you are going to be making a killing relative to other work. This is why you get talking out of both sides of tipped workers mouths. Tips are perpetually terrible and…

The double-speak from people about tipping "I only get paid $2.15 an hour!" ... Yet the story changes the other way when mention of eliminating tipping and raising your wage comes up.

Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#74

Post by bombcar »

missedthecue wrote: post #67
bombcar wrote: post #9

This is so ridiculous that I assume it is intentional sabotage. Isn't the whole idea behind unionization that we can get beyond tipping? https://archive.ph/v1tpo >In addition to an overall raise, representatives from the store are asking Apple for higher pay over a larger slate of holidays, including the day after Thanksgiving. The union is also seeking to expand vacation pay and available time off based on years of…

The marginal cost of putting a tipping screen in the payment flow is close to zero. If one person tips for the whole year, it's pure profit. Yes, it might annoy customers, but I have a hard time buying the idea that people will go buy a Samsung phone because Apple stores ask for a tip. I've seen online checkout pages for e-commerce stores asking for tips now. Not even for custom products or commissioned art or anythi…

There are always marginal customers who are barely hanging on, and already angry with Apple for whatever reason, and seeing a tip screen may finally throw them over the edge. Imagine an example where someone came in for a warranty repair, got told it had some very minor water damage, and so it was not covered, and now has to pay $499 for a repair they feel should have been free (let's assume the water "damage" has nothing to do with the issue) and the payment screen for the repair says "add a tip?" I could see that person never buying a new iPhone, or at least never stepping foot in that store again.

Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#75

Post by compiler-guy »

Apocryphon wrote: post #56
compiler-guy wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the union wants to be taken seriously, then it needs to make serious proposals. The rest of the proposal is dog-bites-man, which isn't really news. This is so far out in left field that of course it is news. It may be a small piece of the proposal, and perhaps even a negotiating tactic, but it makes the union look unreasonable and impossibly out of touch.

It’s one minor point. I think HN’s hatred of tipping culture has been triggered and all of this is a disproportionate response about a point that will likely get dropped in the first round of negotiations.

I don't think it is just hatred of tipping culture--although that is there too--but also a general skepticism about unions. Unions have a pretty severe credibility problem among significant pieces of the HN crowd, and this proposal is so absurd that it makes the problem worse.

Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#76

Post by t-writescode »

bombcar wrote: post #9

This is so ridiculous that I assume it is intentional sabotage. Isn't the whole idea behind unionization that we can get beyond tipping? https://archive.ph/v1tpo >In addition to an overall raise, representatives from the store are asking Apple for higher pay over a larger slate of holidays, including the day after Thanksgiving. The union is also seeking to expand vacation pay and available time off based on years of…

> 45 days a year for pet bereavement? If it includes goldfish, I'm in!

This is a bad read of this.

While 45 days is ... huge, the inclusion of pets and friends is almost certainly a result of companies who refuse to let anyone grieve when their friend dies.

As someone who has lost _way too many_ people in the last 18 months and only 1 of them being immediate family, having those others considered not worth mourning according to the company is just repulsive.

If some exceptional edge case comes where someone abuses the system for goldfish, that's worth the cost if I can grieve when my dog of 7 years or my best friend of 25 dies.

Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#77

Post by sct202 »

bombcar wrote: post #9

This is so ridiculous that I assume it is intentional sabotage. Isn't the whole idea behind unionization that we can get beyond tipping? https://archive.ph/v1tpo >In addition to an overall raise, representatives from the store are asking Apple for higher pay over a larger slate of holidays, including the day after Thanksgiving. The union is also seeking to expand vacation pay and available time off based on years of…

This gives me the vibes of a list of requests made by a committee with feel good rules where all suggestions are valid and you don't get what you don't ask for.

Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#78

Post by anigbrowl »

bombcar wrote: post #49
Apocryphon wrote: post #29

Title is clickbait, which this entire thread has fallen for. Tipping is mentioned in two paragraphs out of an entire article worth of eminently reasonable requests and terms. Who knows what the actual context is. Maybe this was a half-hearted idea that was tossed into a long list. Bloomberg just chose to zero in on it as a title to make the union seem deranged.

I'm not so sure, some of these things seem unreasonable: >And it wants to extend paid bereavement leave from 10 days per occurrence to a maximum of 45 days a year and for the policy to include pets and close friends. >Tipping >Finally, the union is asking Apple to pay $1 an hour more to employees who become first-aid certified, and to provide as many as 34 weeks of severance pay in the event of a layoff. I get the id…

First aid certification is worth something. Not sure it's worth $2000/year, given that a customer who suffered a medical episode in an Apple store would probably end up suing Apple anyway, but it does add value. It's also something the union could organize as a quid pro quo. 34 weeks of severance seems wildly optimistic though.

Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#79

Post by Apocryphon »

bombcar wrote: post #49
Apocryphon wrote: post #29

Title is clickbait, which this entire thread has fallen for. Tipping is mentioned in two paragraphs out of an entire article worth of eminently reasonable requests and terms. Who knows what the actual context is. Maybe this was a half-hearted idea that was tossed into a long list. Bloomberg just chose to zero in on it as a title to make the union seem deranged.

I'm not so sure, some of these things seem unreasonable: >And it wants to extend paid bereavement leave from 10 days per occurrence to a maximum of 45 days a year and for the policy to include pets and close friends. >Tipping >Finally, the union is asking Apple to pay $1 an hour more to employees who become first-aid certified, and to provide as many as 34 weeks of severance pay in the event of a layoff. I get the id…

What’s wrong with bereavement time?
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