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Next.js 13.4

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Re: Next.js 13.4

#31

Post by shitlord »

c-hendricks wrote: post #25
pwnstar4ever wrote: post #19

After running Next.js in production for a few years I never want to touch it again. I haven't used Vercel, but hosting on AWS I had to patch configurations in dirty ways just to get it to run reliably. I suspect they "locked" things like node config behind the abstraction of Next.js to drive users to their platform where issues are "magically" solved.

Counterpoint, we deployed our first nextjs app on AWS last year and it's been very set-and-forget. Even with our hacky https in front of nextjs.

Are you using server side rendering? If so, did you end up writing a custom server, or are you monitoring your website some other way?

My team is developing a server-rendered nextjs app which is deployed on AWS. We haven't really configured it beyond the defaults, but nextjs seems to provide very little visibility into what's happening (e.g., no request logs).

If you could share any tips or lessons learned from operating a production nextjs app, it would be much appreciated.

Re: Next.js 13.4

#32

Post by cbovis »

shitlord wrote: post #31
c-hendricks wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint, we deployed our first nextjs app on AWS last year and it's been very set-and-forget. Even with our hacky https in front of nextjs.

Are you using server side rendering? If so, did you end up writing a custom server, or are you monitoring your website some other way? My team is developing a server-rendered nextjs app which is deployed on AWS. We haven't really configured it beyond the defaults, but nextjs seems to provide very little visibility into what's happening (e.g., no request logs). If you could share any tips or lessons learned from opera…

Have you considered NextJS middleware to decorate with request logging?

https://nextjs.org/docs/pages/building-your-application/rout...

Re: Next.js 13.4

#33

Post by yeskia »

leerob wrote: post #7
nickisnoble wrote: post #3

Annoying that they hyped up this live keynote, and then it was all previous / pre-recorded announcements. I figured with all the other releases, this keynote would show something really big — maybe they should've saved the databases reveal. Instead we get "the thing we announced months ago is out of beta". Vercel, you've been inconsiderate with my time.

The keynote was the summary of the entire week, which included the intro/outro, visual editing section, and the Next.js section which were new. A lot of folks were just tuning in today, versus the start of the week, but yeah, I can empathize with there being some parts that overlap. We'll be publishing more Next.js content here in the coming weeks around the new features as well.

Yeah - "keynote" seemed to imply a big presentation. Not 15 minutes, most of which was literally already released video content. Now confused what is the point of "day 5" if the big reveal is done.

Re: Next.js 13.4

#35

Post by 0xblinq »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #21
0xblinq wrote: post #4

It's astonishing how complex this has become. All the server component stuff is great technologically speaking and if you're using React, it's a very welcome thing as this will lead in the long term to less bloated applications for end users. But as a developer I just can't stand all the complexity and the magic going on. And now a React compiler is on its way too. This is just too much.

I actually see the React compiler plans as a net positive. It introduces complexity in the toolchain which seems bad, but should serve to eliminate a lot of development pains they've introduced over the years. If they get it right, I expect that the dev and user experience on the other side could be quite a bit better. Automatic memoization, signals under the hood, eventually moving away from the VDOM — so much of wh…

Until things fail or don’t go as expected and it’s imposible to know what the hell is going wrong. That’s the biggest problem with complexity, not just understanding it from the user point of view.

Re: Next.js 13.4

#36

Post by 0xblinq »

duped wrote: post #27
0xblinq wrote: post #4

It's astonishing how complex this has become. All the server component stuff is great technologically speaking and if you're using React, it's a very welcome thing as this will lead in the long term to less bloated applications for end users. But as a developer I just can't stand all the complexity and the magic going on. And now a React compiler is on its way too. This is just too much.

> But as a developer I just can't stand all the complexity and the magic going o It's compilers and abstractions all the way down, I don't get why people want to be able to hold the entire stack in their head at once. That ship sailed - decades ago.

Well, then it’s not JavaScript anymore? I love abstractions, but lately all the ones provided by next.js related to the server stuff are pretty leaky, and the compiler looks to me like it’s going to be the most leaky of them.

There’s also that thing about understanding your layer and the layer below to be able to debug. At this point “my layer” is complex enough that I can’t even think on debugging what’s going on with an error in a hook that was inserted by a compiler while SSRing a client side component which toggles a drop-down.

Re: Next.js 13.4

#37

Post by 0xblinq »

davnicwil wrote: post #24
matvp wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't much info out there yet, but this video is a small preview: https://youtu.be/lGEMwh32soc The latest update is mentioned in the March 2023 blog post: https://react.dev/blog/2023/03/22/react-labs-what-we-have-be...

Ah, interesting! My tldr of this is it'll be a transform of easy to read idiomatic react code using hooks etc into more performant code that avoids unnecessary rerenders by statically analysing where optimisations like memoisation can be injected without changing behavior. Pretty smart stuff but also, yeah, perhaps a bit of a black hole of complexity. I can immediately imagine issues with debugging or somehow relying…

As I replied above, all is neat and great until you have to debug something not working as expected.

Re: Next.js 13.4

#38

Post by willcipriano »

cbovis wrote: post #32
shitlord wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you using server side rendering? If so, did you end up writing a custom server, or are you monitoring your website some other way? My team is developing a server-rendered nextjs app which is deployed on AWS. We haven't really configured it beyond the defaults, but nextjs seems to provide very little visibility into what's happening (e.g., no request logs). If you could share any tips or lessons learned from opera…

Have you considered NextJS middleware to decorate with request logging? https://nextjs.org/docs/pages/building-your-application/rout...

Your load balancer/http server should have the request logs, are you running it bare?

Re: Next.js 13.4

#39

Post by steve_adams_86 »

0xblinq wrote: post #35
steve_adams_86 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually see the React compiler plans as a net positive. It introduces complexity in the toolchain which seems bad, but should serve to eliminate a lot of development pains they've introduced over the years. If they get it right, I expect that the dev and user experience on the other side could be quite a bit better. Automatic memoization, signals under the hood, eventually moving away from the VDOM — so much of wh…

Until things fail or don’t go as expected and it’s imposible to know what the hell is going wrong. That’s the biggest problem with complexity, not just understanding it from the user point of view.

I agree. At the moment that’s what’s going wrong in countless react applications already though, largely due to things a compiler could catch automatically.

I’m not saying it’s perfect, but I expect the case you’re anticipating will be less common (though harder to resolve) than the ones which plague people today (whether they realize it does or not… The lack of awareness is one of the worst parts in my opinion, and why resolving it in the background seems ideal).

Re: Next.js 13.4

#40

Post by flashgordon »

Sigh. I'm a huge fan of next. But am getting a bit worried. As a backend person, Next made it possible for me to build cool pages easily - especially as a static export to be served by my backend of choice. This whole push towards forcing an entire stack worries me. I personally am not building consumer apps so am ok with server side routing and/or spas and it feels like every new version the disapproving nod on "no outside backbends" is getting stronger. (As a services developer I personally don't find the ROI on the rest of the vercel ecosystem either but I can see why they need to sell the kitchen sink to justify that crazy valuation)
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