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PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

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Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#991

Post by jupp0r »

ActorNightly wrote: post #212
theclansman wrote: post #182

Just the fact that pornography is being taken seriously as something that's dangerous for minors is a good thing really.

Except despite the vast amounts of counter-evidence, people still are somehow dumb enough to think that hiding stuff from kids works (drugs, guns, porn, e.t.c). Porn is absolutely fine for kids to watch as long as the parents properly contextualize it. The issue is that somehow societally accepted that its taboo to talk to your kid about sex at an early age, and plenty of otherwise normal parents are embarrassed to d…

Hiding away guns from kids (ie gun safe) is working well and often required by law.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#992

Post by berkes »

degentracker12 wrote: post #473
berkes wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that -without more knowledge- it's probably best to presume pornography might warp young peoples view of sex and intimacy. But isn't that all the more reason to research this and educate people in this? So that adults can provide context and background? And to learn which kind of pornography is more dangerous than others in this? So that, with knowledge kids can be shielded from the stuff that's bad from them…

Some of the world's oldest institutions have already researched this topic significantly and have worked together to compile and provide a common piece of literature that is widely available should you wish to embrace it.

The same book that has clothing rules like "don't wear clothing of mixed material" or food safety guidelines like "it is forbidden to eat animals from the water which don't have fins"? A book that was written way before internet porn existed? Before science existed?

Such a book would help? Thanks, but I'll pass.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#993

Post by berkes »

megous wrote: post #540
jliptzin wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know how one would go about doing that research. Anecdotally I figured out the parental lock code on a cable box when I was 12, watched one of the porn channels, I was more excited that I was able to guess the code than anything else. The porn itself didn’t really have any impact on me. My school also showed us Holocaust documentary footage around the same age. People getting shot in the head, piles and piles…

Not all porn is just people sticking their penis into someone else's vagina. It can get pretty disturbing. And disturbing porn is not that harder to find as the non-disturbing one. Now it's the age of anyone being able to upload almost anything for anyone to easily see. And people do. (Anyway, I'm not for the internet wide parental lock. Just noting that things are different than in the past, with ease and breadth of…

But isn't the lack of destination a part of the problem, or maybe the whole problem?

It has been proven, scientifically, that making a distinction between soft- and harddrugs help in fighting drug abuse, death and misery. It's, for example, what the Dutch policy is based on.

By making a clear distinction, and decriminalizing it, you can educate people on it. You can say "this is very bad, that is dangerous and that there is merely unhealthy".

I'm sure a lesson can be drawn tlfor porn there too. By criminalizing, or forbidding it all, blanket, you loose all opportunity to teach about what is normal and what isn't. You just get one big pile, where disturbing and terrible stuff is just as (in) accessible as the stuff that's fun, pleasant or even educational.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#994

Post by shadowgovt »

ngngngng wrote: post #982
DonHopkins wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as the average age of all of your wives is above 18 it's ok, right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives

Only 1% of Utah practices polygamy while the Majority of Utahans are Mormon.

1% is an astonishingly high number; I had no idea.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#995

Post by robertlagrant »

rbanffy wrote: post #579
JohnFen wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said there was a constitutional issue (I don't think that there is). The difference between showing ID to a clerk and this sort of thing is recordkeeping. A clerk is only checking the DOB on the ID, not keeping a record of your identity[1]. Online age checks keep records. If there were some way of doing an age check without having your identity attached to it or having to expose yourself to some commercial th…

> constitutional issue As a foreigner, it's kind of strange that violent movies (and political propaganda disguised as violent movies) are protected speech and pornography is not.

I think it's silly to frame them as a tradeoff, and as protection being something special, when everything is protected by default with limited exceptions.

If you want to argue that pornography should not be an exception, or that violence should be, then fair enough, but given they're such different types of content it's nonsensical to try and put them on an axis and claim one is further along it than the other.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#996

Post by robertlagrant »

jdiff wrote: post #570
robertlagrant wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how that relates to whether or not this is a maximalist approach.

It relates to the question you asked, there's a difference between a physical store and a website, and the difference between uploading a copy of your ID to a porn website and letting a cashier glance at your ID for a moment is substantial. Porn is accessible on the open web. You can't plug all the leaks or even most of them, it's just not possible to put the genie back in its pre-internet bottle. Smut is out there a…

I'm not saying there's no difference. I'm saying it doesn't seem like a maximalist approach. Both a website and a cashier could choose to not record your ID.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#997

Post by least »

bumby wrote: post #973
least wrote: post #965

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Higher priority risks are things that are easily measurable. A child that does not have food to eat or cannot access healthcare they need because their parents cannot afford it is very obviously bad for the child. Educational opportunities are another thing that's pretty easy to measure. Measuring the negative effects, if any, viewing pornography has on children isn't particularly easy to measure. I would say it's no…

So where do you think the current research on the negative effects of pornography get it wrong? I’m always a little leery when someone says something like ”I personally don't think there's any case where I think legislation like this is appropriate” It usually means either someone’s mind is closed to considering new information (I.e., they have a dogmatic position) or their mental model isn’t open to nuance (I.e., th…

> So where do you think the current research on the negative effects of pornography get it wrong?

This is a contentious issue. There's no consensus on whether or not use of pornography is harmful. Suppose there was consensus. To what degree is it harmful and is it harmful enough to legislate against it?

There's a very low chance that it'd pass that threshold for me, given that I generally prefer people be allowed to make choices over what they do with their body when it doesn't meaningfully harm others.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#998

Post by Aerbil313 »

mbs159 wrote: post #976
Aerbil313 wrote: post #821

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Muslims have been very successfull in prohibiton of all kinds of drugs and alcohol since 15 centuries. There are clearly more factors at play than what the law says. What do you believe will happen if you drink alcohol in secret, out of range of the eyes of the State? Muslims believe this will still have consequences in afterlife. Atheists don't. Many Christians believe they'll be saved and forgiven by God as long as…

I don't have the data to back this up, but from what I've heard it is not unusual to drink alcohol in some predominantly Muslim countries like Turkey. Despite that, I agree with you that there are definitely more factors at play than just the law.

I live in Turkey, probably the most heavily and forcefully secularized muslim country in the world (Ataturk killed half a million population for his secular reforms according to some sources, Islamic alphabet got abolished, western dress code literally became law and religious clothing got prohibited, religion schools closed, religious scholars executed and prosecuted and Adhan was banned for 18 years).

It's free to drink here, but drugs are banned. Only a very small minority drinks alcohol in my region, I have no relatives I know of that ever drank. Drugs/weed/marijuana are horrible things no one ever wants in my entire social circle, I don't think I have ever seen a user of such substances in my entire life IRL. Western and some coastal cities drink more and there's more drug activity too (and they're less religious too).

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#999

Post by notjoemama »

E39M5S62 wrote: post #921
notjoemama wrote: post #918

Just mentioning, this post at the time of my comment, has 856 comments. That's roughly 3 times the next highest post at this moment, and at least 8 times the average, and I'm being generous. In short, hacker news users have quite a bit to say about porn on the internet, while another "popular" post about Google's DeepMind CEO's belief about impending general artificial intelligence remains at 35 comments. lol Stay cl…

What's the purpose of this comment, other than as an attempt to shame people for discussing a normal topic?

I found it humerous and shared my observation thinking others might enjoy it.

Why was your initial observation about shame?

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#1000

Post by bumby »

least wrote: post #997
bumby wrote: post #973

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So where do you think the current research on the negative effects of pornography get it wrong? I’m always a little leery when someone says something like ”I personally don't think there's any case where I think legislation like this is appropriate” It usually means either someone’s mind is closed to considering new information (I.e., they have a dogmatic position) or their mental model isn’t open to nuance (I.e., th…

> So where do you think the current research on the negative effects of pornography get it wrong? This is a contentious issue. There's no consensus on whether or not use of pornography is harmful. Suppose there was consensus. To what degree is it harmful and is it harmful enough to legislate against it? There's a very low chance that it'd pass that threshold for me, given that I generally prefer people be allowed to…

>There's no consensus on whether or not use of pornography is harmful.

I think a lot of the lack of consensus is due to an unclear definition of what constitutes "pornography". This makes it easy to muddle the issue.

>given that I generally prefer people be allowed to make choices over what they do with their body when it doesn't meaningfully harm others.

I generally agree when it comes to adults, but the crux of this discussion is risk to children. Do you extend this same logic to minors? If your stance is that it's up to the parents, do you think there should be safeguards for kids with "bad" parents? If so, what would that look like to you?

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