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How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed

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Re: How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed

#111

Post by mthoms »

indymike wrote: post #82
mthoms wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. It's a blatantly obvious dark pattern. It's your credit card. Your money. Yet Apple gives you no way to cancel (or even view!) a child's subscription online. Heck, they won't even tell you which child made the subscription.

One of my younger kids bought $7,200 worth of currency and content on a game on a Kindle. She did so in a single afternoon. I contacted Amazon support and the refund was issued on the spot. After they issued the refund, the only question that was asked was why I had it set to allow her to buy online. I replied that it was because she could not use one of Amazon's services with the family account without having paymen…

To be fair, Apple refunded and cancelled the subscription upon request in my instance too. But first you've got to notice the problem, and then jump through the hoops.

There's no good reason I shouldn't be able to cancel an auto-recurring subscription on my own credit card from some interface.

Re: How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed

#114

Post by catiopatio »

eli wrote: post #102
Damogran6 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So...I get the reasoning, but yet another in a large string of things where I wouldn't have conflated something with race....until you brought it up, and now I do...I don't know if I should feel guilty at the inherent privilege or if people are just taking it to an extreme, or if it's just language being language.

I don't think you or OP or anyone else here is trying to offend. Nor do I think most people hearing the term would find it offensive. But like I said: the alternative is both more descriptive and avoids the issue. This feels like an easy one.

It’s not more descriptive, and it created the issue.

The patterns aren’t just deceptive — they’re underhanded, scheming, unscrupulous, perfidious … in other words, dark.

None of which has a whit to do with race.

Re: How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed

#115

Post by brvsft »

> Products that confusingly label “cancel” or “unsubscribe”

> Some websites that are subscription-based hide the cancellation flow under a new name: “auto-renew” or “edit plan.” With Daily Harvest, Express VPN and Vimeo, there isn’t a button or area that says “cancel.” Instead a user has to look for “auto-renew” and turn off “auto-renew” payments, which effectively cancels the subscription. This kind of naming is confusing, adding unnecessary friction to the cancellation process.

This particular case doesn't seem like a dark pattern to me, although it depends on how difficult they make it to find the feature. However, as far as the button label, there is no "cancel" button because seeing a button explicitly labeled "cancel" will make some users think that they are exiting the dialog rather than performing the action they desire. This would be poor UX, and I see nothing nefarious about not naming the button "cancel" exactly as stated in the blurb I quoted.

Re: How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed

#116

Post by alistairSH »

mthoms wrote: post #108
alistairSH wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you allow your child to buy subscriptions without approval? Does "Family Sharing" with "Require Purchase Approval" not work as described?

It's (IMO) intentionally crippled because it asks for every app install. Including free ones. Which is not only annoying, since kids play a lot of games, but also creates a time delay. For example, the child is in a special education program that requires certain apps. If he tries to install one at school and I don't approve it immediately then that's a problem. There is no option to "ask for permission if it costs m…

Ah. Totally makes sense.

My “kid” is nearly 30, so we never had to deal with this.

Re: How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed

#117

Post by brvsft »

ruph123 wrote: post #62
liendolucas wrote: post #58

Another way to forcefully cancel a subscription is simply registering with a card to which you can manually add or recharge credit, the day that you do not put money in it (or remove from it), the subscription should be automatically cancelled as they can't debit that amount from you (yeah, it doesn't work if you're subscribed to several services. Or maybe it could if you meticulously add/remove credit the exact days…

How is this legal? This always seemed like a weird "hack" to me. Just because your payment method does not work anymore, this does not cancel your buying contract. If they wanted to, couldn't they just sue you?

I don't know exactly what would happen, but I assume they'd get a collection agency to harass you for it, or possibly sell the 'debt' to one. Suing you would be more effort than it's worth.

Re: How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed

#118

Post by revicon »

ssharp wrote: post #47

I use Spectrum for home internet and they ran a deal for a while where you could as like 15 streaming channels for $15. It wasn't a bad deal to get a few channels for live sports + local news. Eventually, they started adding in more in "fees" for the TV package than the TV package itself costs. There's no way to cancel online, so I had to call in. I have to give my name and contact information to at least 3 people an…

This is why I don't subscribe to Sirius XM even though it's built into both of my car stereos. They have no way of cancelling online and there's no way I'm playing phone tag with a company to stop them charging my credit card, I'll put it off and forget about it. Every time a Sirius XM sales person calls me I tell them the same thing. Maybe if more people made this a deal breaker for them companies would change.

Re: How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed

#119

Post by differentView »

graypegg wrote: post #3

I heard someone say a while back that “cancelled customers are just potential future customers”. Anyone that’s had an easy cancellation process will remember that flexibility if they ever need that service again. No idea why no large subscription service seems to understand that. Make me go thru annoying hoops and you’ve lost me for good!

Perhaps many of the decision makers have their compensation tied to short-term results.

Re: How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed

#120

Post by tarunupaday »

garbagecoder wrote: post #97
willcipriano wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US based? Next time tell them he's 12 and made the account himself without your permission. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Online_Privacy_...

I could have, but I don't think I should have to massage the facts to get this fixed. I made the account. He just lost his password.

I call bullshit on this one.

Apple allows a Parent / Guardian account to reset the password of a child account. I do not have to do anything. I can just go into my iCloud settings and just reset my child’s account right away. Also, Apple does not allow you to create a child account (below 13) without having a parent account attached to it.

My guess is that you lied during account creation and created an adult account for your child and then you handed that account password and the reset mechanism to your child and he /she lost BOTH of them. In which case, Apple should still help you but I would say - you are more at fault here than Apple

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