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Unity to lay off 8% of its workforce

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Re: Unity to lay off 8% of its workforce

#41

Unity is a broken company that sells a critically broken engine. Sure, it's a great engine for rapid prototyping & releasing indie titles, but not great for getting to the finish line. I know of teams that have had to take out source licenses and edit the engine to fix & work around bugs so they could actually ship their game. Unity also don't build and release with their engine, like Epic does with Unreal & Fortnite…

I think you are being a little harsh. https://unity.com/madewith/hollow-knight Right now there is no engine better for a small studio of 3-5 people. Godot is VASTLY overrated, and Unreal gets way too complex too fast.

Hollow Knight is not a unity in-house game, it is a 3rd party studio. I did not say that Unity is not capable of great titles.

Unreal is the opposite end of the difficulty curve: where Unity is great for rapid prototyping but terrible for deployment, Unreal is terrible for prototyping and project bring up, but most of your problems for deployment are front-loaded.

Godot is certainly...maturing. It's not without its flaws. I help ship a very widely-used project with it (with a team of 3-5 actual 3D devs that work with Godot) that has many build targets—perhaps one of the biggest Godot projects in production—and I've definitely made cynical comments about it before on this very website. But as we're now in an era of Godot 4, I sincerely think that Godot—because it's built by people who deeply care about shipping great games and tools to build those games with as their P1—will wind up being far more successful than Unity in time. (At least, when compared to Unity's current trajectory and tools, compared to Godot's current trajectory.)

Re: Unity to lay off 8% of its workforce

#42
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, what makes Godot overrated?

It's not as mature as other platforms, but it's built extremely well from the base up. Unity has a huge ecosystem and tools, but it's built on a shitty/messy platform full of bugs and hacks. If I was to make a quick & simple 2d or mobile game today, I'd go with Unity. If you want to make something that will require more effort, but work well for years, Godot is better. UE5 is the choice for anything 3d and complex.

I've prototyped with all 3 and ship a continuously maintained Godot 3 project in production.

I'd really, honestly, pick Godot 4 before Unity without any hesitation. If I had to pick from anything else that exists, UE5 would be my backup.

Re: Unity to lay off 8% of its workforce

#43
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds a lot like profit, no?

No lol, I don't mean for every $1 they do in revenue they have $0.66 in costs, I mean for every $1 they do in revenue they're spending $1.66 and losing $0.66. These kind of numbers might be okay if they were a new startup growing sales 100%+ YoY, but they've been around since 2005 and have a mediocre growth rate of about 25-30%. There's just no excuse for this level of mismanagement.

I see, thanks for the clarification.

Re: Unity to lay off 8% of its workforce

#44
post #40

Unreal and Godot seem to be doing a number on Unity from both ends. The higher end of the industry is going Unreal while the indie games and hobbyist are going Godot. I imagine this is also why Epic is a Godot donor.

Have there been any well-known games made in Godot yet? When I started with my first proper game which was released a few months ago I went with Unity because I couldn't find any successful examples and the knowledgebase was lacking in comparison with Unity.

Re: Unity to lay off 8% of its workforce

#45
I want to love Unity, but as a low-level and backend developer I find it incredibly frustrating to use.

I deal mostly with automations, so rarely do things directly anymore. I'm always thinking in terms of: how can I record this and play it back, can I get at the underlying data structures (hopefully standard like JSON or CSV), can I do multi-file search and replace with shell tools like grep using regexes, can I exercise the thing with a different tool like curl instead of a GUI, etc etc etc. So when I have to do something more than once, I often copy the text into something like BBEdit and run text filters on each line or use rectangular select on tabular data or format it as TSV (tab separated values) to copy/paste data into spreadsheets.

But in Unity, I have to do everything the bare hands way with cookie cutter tools. I realize that's by design, but please, give experienced developers the means to access the underlying data structures so they can automate their work.

For example, I was setting up the controller button mappings for my VR rig. At first it was great, until I tried to copy and paste rows in their GUI and found that it didn't work. I get tripped up constantly by the simplest tasks because Unity evidently doesn't run its GUIs by new users, the way that Apple might when they're designing a new interface.

And then there's missing functionality in their standard libraries. For example, the GL_LINES primitive from OpenGL is simply missing, and there's no metaphor that replaces lines within their renderers. This isn't really their fault, since such basic functionality has been stripped from the underlying drivers on most platforms. Instead, they provide an over-engineered line mesh tool, which is fine, but many orders of magnitude slower, and we can't just use it as a shader on an existing model.

There's no separate stop button. It doesn't save what I do in play mode automatically, or even ask me whether to make some of the edits I've made permanent. Their version control tool is atrociously bad compared to standard ones like git. The shader graph GUI runs many thousands of times slower than it should (unusable on my daily driver Mac Mini, I have to bust out the gaming PC).

Times everything. A beginner mind outside of the Unity ecosystem sees these hindrances immediately. But experienced Unity users become blind to them. My very good programmer friend thinks I'm simply crazy and using it wrong. But see, that's his answer for everything. To criticize me instead of to consider ways that the tools could be improved. Which is the antithesis of computer programming (in fairness, he's much more of an artist or craftsman than an engineer like me).

Then I run into problems with their opinionated stances like composition over inheritance. Or various friction in C# that I never hit in languages like PHP that I chose specifically to avoid the manual management of C++-inspired languages. Which is its own can of worms, because developers cling to advantages that suit them rather than seeing the advantages that other paradigms could bring. Again, this is very anti-programming in my book.

So my advice to Unity would be to take a year and stop chasing Unreal. Implement the low-hanging fruit. Fix the bugs. Update the documentation. Consider allowing a large list of languages, especially Javascript/Lua/Python. But I think that the odds of any of this happening are so low that I regret taking the time to write this comment.

Re: Unity to lay off 8% of its workforce

#46

https://www.google.com/search?q=unity+vs+unreal+engine https://www.google.com/search?q=what+video+games+use+unity+e... How much does/did Unity charge for the top games that use their engine? How else do they generate revenue (and profit)? How do they compete with Unreal? Is Unreal more successful of the two?

If I remember right, Unity's largest revenue source is their asset store, followed by mobile in-game ads.

That's not correct. They don't even mention the asset store in their annual reports or shareholder letters any more, but in 2020 the Asset Store revenue was part of a category that was less than 8% of revenue. Their main revenue drivers are their ad solutions and engine licensing for large studios.

Re: Unity to lay off 8% of its workforce

#47
post #40

Unreal and Godot seem to be doing a number on Unity from both ends. The higher end of the industry is going Unreal while the indie games and hobbyist are going Godot. I imagine this is also why Epic is a Godot donor.

Have there been any well-known games made in Godot yet? When I started with my first proper game which was released a few months ago I went with Unity because I couldn't find any successful examples and the knowledgebase was lacking in comparison with Unity.

Depends how you define well-known. The Godot showcase lists some of the popular ones: https://godotengine.org/showcase/. I believe Dome Keeper did $1m+ in sales with a 2-person team and I assume Brotato and Cruelty Squad are probably in 7 figures as well. So far, the hits have definitely been on the smaller side, but I expect things will change with Godot 4 being released. Another big factor is that most of the games released so far have been developed by tiny teams.

Re: Unity to lay off 8% of its workforce

#48

Unity is a broken company that sells a critically broken engine. Sure, it's a great engine for rapid prototyping & releasing indie titles, but not great for getting to the finish line. I know of teams that have had to take out source licenses and edit the engine to fix & work around bugs so they could actually ship their game. Unity also don't build and release with their engine, like Epic does with Unreal & Fortnite…

Is Godot production ready? I'm always intrigued by it but it always feels much more like a startup vs the polished Unreal engine.

Re: Unity to lay off 8% of its workforce

#49
post #8

The second half of the news, not mentioned in TFA, is that they are going to close around half of their offices worldwide "in the coming years": https://www.gamesindustry.biz/unity-lays-off-hundreds-more-c... No info on which offices might be at risk.

Probably not the main Copenhagen office as I expect Danish employee protection rights to be off the chart.

The "main" office has been in SF for years.

Re: Unity to lay off 8% of its workforce

#50
post #26

My guess is they are cutting glut, realizing that the free money times are over and not that there's fundamental issues (apart from relying on free money too much of course). I'm a bit nervous about them turning profitable eventually but there's enough technical merit and niche that they should. I remember they grew headcount by a lot but maybe I'm misremembering. Maybe this sounds a bit cynical but 8% actually feels…

> I remember they grew headcount by a lot

Yeah, by 2x between 2020 and 2022...

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