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MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

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Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#381

Post by GartzenDeHaes »

dustedcodes wrote: post #30
golemotron wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big difference is that Google and Apple are largely in the consumer space. MS, with Teams, is in the enterprise space where user experience isn't part of the buy decision.

If CEOs, CTOs, CFOs all start having annoying issues with Teams, Office, Azure, etc. on their MacBooks and iPhones then you can bet your right arm on it that it will affect corporate buying decisions. Zoom demonstrated really well how quickly companies were to switch their conferencing software if one worked consistently better than another.

Things can change fast when executives start complaining about the software the IT department is making them use.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#382

Post by NikolaNovak »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #363
NikolaNovak wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with your premise. I have an iPhone (forced upon me by work) and it's ridiculous how many links still try to open in safari or Apple maps. I've tried to configure it for years and I've literally uninstalled Apple maps, but half the time iPhone keeps wanting me to reinstall it when I click a link or address. And a lot of url links open in safari instead of chrome or Firefox. Same with many other things - I…

> I can install any keyboard I want as long as it's just a skin on their keyboard. As an iOS app dev with a hobby project iOS keyboard, this is false. Third party iOS keyboards have just as much control over the keyboard UI and how each key (if it even has keys — your “keyboard” can be literally anything) interacts with text as a full fledged app does. In fact there is no way to “skin” the standard keyboard, but I wi…

I'm extremely interested in this; how come none of the keyboards I've tried depart from the same layout as Apple? Is it strict adherence to guidelines rather than technical restriction then?

To wit, some of the features that same-named apps/keyboards give me on android but not on iPhone include "hold key for alternative character" or button to "force" numpad. As well all keyboards I've tried have same layout and sizing as the original one.

I assumed it was imposed on them in some way I guess?

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#383

Post by layer8 »

I’m guessing that Microsoft is unhappy that Edge still hasn’t reached the same market share that IE still had when the first Edge version was released in 2015. The strategy of breaking away from the seemingly tainted “Internet Explorer” branding didn’t quite work out.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#384

Post by jsiepkes »

DownGoat wrote: post #309
jsiepkes wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They did a wonderful job with C# and .NET Core. You mean the products Microsoft created when it became apparent they were losing the lawsuit about their embrace, extend extinguish tactics with J++ and their custom Java implementation. And also had to cough up billions of dollars in a settlement with Sun [1]. [1] https://www.infoworld.com/article/2667124/update--sun--micro...

I think he means the newer versions of the stack, from the release of .NET Core 1 in 2016 and onward.

Ok, but even if it's about .NET Core; As far as I can tell the creation of .NET Core was a business decision and not because MS suddenly wanted to create a better product.

More then 50% of the VM's in Azure run Linux and not Windows. On AWS and GCP the percentage VM's running non-Windows OS'es is probably even higher. That's a realistic threat to the continued existence of .NET if .NET only runs on Windows.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#385

Post by hospitalJail »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #295
dustedcodes wrote: post #6

I have no skin in the game, but even I am starting to think the obvious thing here: Apple and Google own the entire mobile OS market. They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Microsoft. But they don't. So far they were competing by making their own products better. Microsoft needs to think hard how hostile…

I disagree with your premise. I have an iPhone (forced upon me by work) and it's ridiculous how many links still try to open in safari or Apple maps. I've tried to configure it for years and I've literally uninstalled Apple maps, but half the time iPhone keeps wanting me to reinstall it when I click a link or address. And a lot of url links open in safari instead of chrome or Firefox. Same with many other things - I…

>walled garden

Walled garden is marketing speak. You should not use it.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#386

Post by nabilhat »

Windows is not unhackable. This one's easy. Deleting all instances of the msedge executable does not break Windows. Don't depend on settings, they're not reliable or comprehensive, and it's far more work to track them all down and maintain their value than it is to simply delete the problem. Some "features" will stop working. The article's example is one of many. Windows will now use your chosen applications if it can, or simply not if the only point was to push Edge.

If you're stuck on Windows and have access to delete things from %programfiles% (and elsewhere), this is a zero risk thing to try! Every update reinstalls Edge, so the next time you have an update queued, delete Edge. If you don't like it, run the update and you're back to Edge Everywhere.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#387

Post by swamp40 »

The pdf hijacking drives me crazy daily.

They must have put an entire team on ways to re-enable Edge as default. And I'll bet they have some crazy logic to justify their hijacking. "Oh, you opened Outlook, that must mean you want all your pdfs opened in Edge again!"

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#388

Post by gowld »

toyg wrote: post #37
dustedcodes wrote: post #6

I have no skin in the game, but even I am starting to think the obvious thing here: Apple and Google own the entire mobile OS market. They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Microsoft. But they don't. So far they were competing by making their own products better. Microsoft needs to think hard how hostile…

Microsoft is actually the one reacting here. They were effectively forced to let the web be an open field by antitrust cases; Apple and Google took advantage of that to build two walled gardens, which ended up dwarfing MS's own empire. It was inevitable that, sooner or later, MS would have gone "If this behaviour is now allowed, why should we not do it too?" This is just the result of normalizing monopolistic practic…

MS built a walled mobile garden too. Nobody bought into it.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#389

Post by hirako2000 »

mikewarot wrote: post #304
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're talking about this like Microsoft ever did anything differently than what you wrote? Since when have they focused 100% on just building great products and competing fairly? They did a wonderful job with C# and .NET Core. But you need to remember your org charts; the Edge and Windows 11 decision-makers are not the same people with the same incentives.

>They did a wonderful job with C# and .NET Core. This is a joke, right? We never, ever, needed anything other than the Win32 GUI at the core of windows, and it still works to this day. You can write Windows programs without the new stuff, in Lazarus, for example. C# and .NET were a huge step backwards. VB6 was something easy enough for domain experts to get working, without having to hire a programmer. Delphi for Win…

How so? Because they sort of open source the tech and made it possible to build for other platforms? C# is a great language taking over the advances of Java and C/++ making things a bit better, but intentions didn't make it any better: owning the devs.

VScode? A rebuild of Atom, "free" with un-disable-able telemetry with the same intention: owning the devs

Buy out of github, owning the devs

Rebuild of ms office for the web: owning users given gsuite was seriously taking over office use

OpenAI: since bing kept being a failure, they invested elsewhere and may have a chance, here again: own the general users and to a degree professionals.

Anything MS did and continues to do is lateral moves to own markets. The pretence of openness or innovation makes it even worse than the corp from its flamboyant 90s days, at least back then nobody was taken for a fool.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#390

Post by martinald »

kps wrote: post #359
scrollaway wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux desktop is such small fish to Microsoft it would be ridiculous for them to focus on it as competitor right now. If experience gets degraded it’s because of limited testing, not malicious intent. It’s like Oracle suddenly deciding that their greatest competitor is sqlite. The two live in different worlds.

It's not about developer machines, it's about servers. There are are a lot of people who want to run the same OS, and even the same processor architecture, on their development and deployment machines. (I've almost always worked in a cross-compilation world, so this doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but whenever the topic of ARM or RISC-V machines comes up here, it gets a lot of attention.)

But loads of people develop on Windows and deploy on Linux. I would say that is the 'default' approach now for even Microsoft .net core apps; given how supported docker is, and the docker containers run linux?
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