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PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

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Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#781

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Theocracies can be elected. > No, they can't Why not? The vast majority of people in Utah are Mormon, and people in high positions within the LDS Church often go into state and local politics and elected, precisely because they will enact policies that align with the moral tenets of the Mormon religion...

> people in high positions within the LDS Church often go into state and local politics and elect Yep. That's called a democracy, or a Republic, depending on which word you prefer. It's literally nothing like a Theocracy, in practice or in theory. You should probably study what an actual theocracy is: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/theocracy...

It's literally a theocracy /in practice/ because the religious minority is the majority in that region, in a state literally created for them, and they have run it since its foundation on the basis of the their religious beliefs, and continue to do so. You can't get more theocratic while being inside the US.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#782

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why what? Try posting a comment with more than a word or two if you want a meaningful discussion.

Why is it not interently protected speech? If you are going to make exceptions to the first admendment for safety can you prove the danger explicitly? Why not the 2nd admendment?

So is that a “no, I’m not aware of any cases holding that either”?

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#783
post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More likely they have not had sex or been to a strip club. Whenever I see people argue that porn is just like sex they always turn out to be minors or young adults who have only ever experienced porn and not intimate relationships.

That feels like a cruel assumption to make. But I think that says more about me than them.

I don’t think it’s cruel. There’s nothing wrong with not having certain life experiences. I think it’s wrong to make assertions without knowing all the facts which is what these types of people do all the time. (See /r/relationships for many examples).

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#785

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? Is this a States thing? That in the United States that nudity and pornography is "dangerous", yet in other cultures throughout Europe, it's not taken as seriously, nor does it have this overall "dangerous" tag to it (generally speaking that is. Prudish people trying to impose their will on others can be a world-wide phenomenon). And does this put a curb on explicit R rated movies that has nudity and acts of se…

Anything that can hijack the dopaminergic system should not be allowed to kids. Gambling, tiktok & smartphones in general, porn, drugs etc. We used to have shame as a societal mechanism to deal with these issues. It was shameful to be an alcoholic, which was how alcoholism was kept in check. The same way it was shameful in ancient Greece to surrender to your carnal urges. Shame is disappearing. Our societies are goin…

Is there evidence shame prevents or treats addiction? Everything I've seen suggests the opposite.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#786

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's wrong with these people? It's Utah. Utah, for all the ways that actually matter, is effectively a theocracy operated by an ultra-conservative religious minority. Utah is about as similar to the rest of the United States as the rest of the United States is similar to the Middle East.

Hyperbole much? Comparing Utah to the Middle East is a bit disingenuous.

They didn't, they compared the United States to the Middle East (with the suggestion that they are very different).

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#787

Multiple issues with this. It starts off with arbitrary definitions of what pornography is ( https://le.utah.gov/~2023/bills/static/SB0287.html ): "nipple of the female breast" You can suck on it when you are a baby, but god forbid you ever take a look at it again before you are married. What's wrong with these people? Even public nudity laws differ from city to city (e.g. in California), so clearly, people aren't al…

> What's wrong with these people? It's Utah. Utah, for all the ways that actually matter, is effectively a theocracy operated by an ultra-conservative religious minority. Utah is about as similar to the rest of the United States as the rest of the United States is similar to the Middle East.

Salt Lake City has a progressive government, for what it’s worth.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop complying with them. If they won't sell to you, take your business elsewhere and tell them why. If they whine about laws tell them to hire better lobbyists.

Eliminating the discretion of a cashier is not a bad thing. It harms no one and makes their job easier.

It harms me by making me ask permission of strangers to eat and drink what I choose. I don't think telling people to operate as mindless robots makes their job easier.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#789
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suspect any academic study proposing to show pornography to minors is going to get shut down pretty quickly. I highly doubt this, because it's both important and relevant. 16y/o will consume pornography. I know I did, and I was 16 way before internet. Young adults will have had exposure before engaging in actual sex. This is important because it might be problematic. Because it changes behavior. But also because…

Any research which involved actually showing pornography to minors would almost certainly be shut down for ethical reasons. Studies would almost certainly have to be observational and post-facto, studying people who admit to having been exposed as minors. Medical ethics practices in the U.S. are actually very advanced and restrictive. I cannot imagine an IRB ever approving showing minors pornography especially given…

You are completely correct with the minor edit that this study would never be shutdown as there is a 0% chance it ever gets approved.

Beyond how strict IRB/REB boards are in general, there are also additional federal requirements that must be satisfied when submitting a study proposal on children including surveys and not just interventions. In the US these are the pathways:

Section 404 requires that research poses no more than minimal risk. As the intervention itself is a federal crime this is not satisfied.

Section 405 allows for more than minimal risk if the anticipated benefit for the study subject justifies the risk. There is no individual benefit to the minor for watching pornography.

Section 406 requires that the risk is "commensurate with the subjects expected or actual psychological and social situations" which is hard to argue is expected when it is illegal to begin with. It also requires that the intervention is "likely to yield generalizable knowledge about the subjects’ disorder or condition which is of vital importance for the understanding or amelioration of the subjects’ disorder or condition", hard to argue that answering whether children viewing obscenity is addictive provides knowledge that is vitally important when there is no clear reason why children should be exposed to pornography.

If an IRB cannot satisfy sections 404-406 the only other way to get such a study approved is section 407 which requires direct approval from the Secretary of Health and Human Services if the "research presents a reasonable opportunity to understand, prevent, or alleviate a serious problem affecting children’s health or welfare, and, in addition, determines that the research will be conducted in accordance with sound ethical principles and that adequate provisions are made for soliciting the assent of children and permission of their parents or guardians". It is impossible that this would be satisfied as children NOT watching pornography (the alternative treatment/status quo) is hardly a problem let alone a serious one.

This has nothing to do with religious justifications but is due to very reasonable and heightened ethics requirements when conducting research on children, be it pornography or a new medication. Canada is essentially the same and I can't speak to Europe but I imagine most countries have similar requirements regarding to needing to demonstrate likely benefit to research subjects or contribute to understanding of a disease (which is nonexistent in paediatrics).

Every researcher thinks their question is relevant and important and that's why we have these rules in place.

https://www.hhs.gov/ohrp/regulations-and-policy/regulations/...

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#790
post #749

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is effectively a theocracy operated by an ultra-conservative religious minority. You should look up what the word theocracy means. Here. I'll do it for you: "a system of government in which priests rule in the name of God or a god." Utah's government is a constitutional Republic. People vote in leaders who make laws and administer the government on their behalf. > Utah is about as similar to the rest of the United…

Theocracies can be elected. I fail to see how your definition of a theocracy automatically disqualifies Utah from being an "effective theocracy".

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