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Vacations in the Soviet Union

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Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#371

Post by ido »

mannerheim wrote: post #285
atdrummond wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I encourage you (barring safety concerns) to travel to countries whose governments are considered illiberal. Some of my most enlightening trips were to DPRK, Russia, China, Turkmenistan, Brunei. You learn a lot about how the western media tends to exaggerate for political ends.

Funny, I have been to China many times visiting family and have never felt that western media has been particularly unfair in its portrayal. I would rather not ever go back while Xi is still in power if I can help it (unfortunately I may have to one or two more times for familial obligations) and would recommend against going to anyone on the fence. Don't get Brittney Griner'd.

Why Xi in particular, and do you have reason to believe his successor would be any better?

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#372

Post by ido »

obscurette wrote: post #233

I lived half of my life in Soviet Union and would say that this article is simplification with sources more from instate propaganda than from reality. The article basically describes russian upper middle class (yes, there were classes within soviet society) after WWII. Most of people couldn't even dream about Sochi. Soviet Union was huge and differences between regions, classes, nationalities etc were very much there…

Just a minor comment - the word you're looking for is intelligentsia[0] not intelligence.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligentsia

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#373

Post by HideousKojima »

gdy wrote: post #219
jtbayly wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haga has a flagged comment pointing out the purpose of this policy, and I can't figure out why it is flagged, so I'll just quote what the article says: "It encouraged workers to vacation with groups of relative strangers as opposed to their friends and families. They were all part of a collective and that umbrella united them. In the Soviet Union, after all, the collective—not the family—was the most important social…

That's just sovietophobic fiction. I remember the slogan "Family is the unit of society" and childless people had to pay a special tax. Also infidelity in marriage was frowned upon and could negatively affect the career.

>That's just sovietophobic fiction.

Or it's just believing Marx when he wrote this in the Communist Manifesto:

Abolition of the family! Even the most radical flare up at this infamous proposal of the Communists.

On what foundation is the present family, the bourgeois family, based? On capital, on private gain. In its completely developed form, this family exists only among the bourgeoisie. But this state of things finds its complement in the practical absence of the family among the proletarians, and in public prostitution.

The bourgeois family will vanish as a matter of course when its complement vanishes, and both will vanish with the vanishing of capital.

Do you charge us with wanting to stop the exploitation of children by their parents? To this crime we plead guilty.

But, you say, we destroy the most hallowed of relations, when we replace home education by social.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#374

Post by simongray »

pierat wrote: post #263
The_Colonel wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, your suggestion that the desire for more time off must be caused by some mental problem is pretty rude. I also don't understand why is it such a mystery that people might want to pursue other interests than just work and that requires time off work. Here in Europe, 20+10 is the bare minimum, with most people getting more and still striving for more.

My current job, with 20 days PTO plus federal holidays is what I get per year. If I get sick, it comes out of the 20 day pool. If I want a vacation, comes out of the 20 day pool. At least, thankfully, I'm a remote worker, so I won't be infecting the whole office. But I still have 'come to work' sick this year. There are more than a few obnoxious cold bugs going around. And still, COVID. And from what I understand, mo…

> And from what I understand, most European Union countries get unlimited sick leave, and 4-6 weeks of vacation both.

Yes, this is correct.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#375

Post by fifilura »

elzbardico wrote: post #368
fifilura wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...said the Russians. Until they got drafted into an illegal war...

Said the Americans. Until they got drafted into an illegal war in Vietnam or were given no other chance to earn a living than getting paid to kill in illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. And let’s not even talking about all the coups the State Department and the CIA nurtured across countless countries

And here you are. With the possibility, and legal permission, to say just that.

Good that you are.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#376

Post by thriftwy »

ido wrote: post #370
sangnoir wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Forced ethnic mixing with deportations to faraway regions to dillute national identity. Did you mean "to dilute regional/ethnic identity"? National identity cuts across regions and ethnicities.

I guess they meant the national identities like Ukranian, Georgian, Uzbek, etc.

This is what gets peddled across the world, but for the most part, Soviet Union eas busy creating those national identities. Sometimes it took a break when it became too inconvenient, only to resume it later. Soviet Union is who created these national states in the first place. There were no Georgia and no Uzbekistan before the USSR. In both cases there were a bunch of unaligned tribes or much smaller principalities with no real national identity.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#377

Post by nicbou »

xioxox wrote: post #200
nicbou wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are forced to take vacations. What you do with them is beyond your employer's control.

I'm not forced to take vacations in Germany by my employer (large research institution). They roll over for a year, but then expire.

You are forced by law to take at least two consecutive weeks once a year. But yes my employer also allowed this and one of my colleagues had accumulated an absurd amount. You still had to take two weeks but could keep the rest.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#378

Post by mantas »

dubcanada wrote: post #131
tsukikage wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s awesome when you’re single, not so appealing once you start a family.

You no longer want to meet new people once you start a family?

You don't want to spend vacations vacations with your family? This soviet system in it's heyday was damn close to that. Especially when, for a short time, „7 workdays week“ was implemented where people worked 6 days, but the day off was on different day to keep factories running 7 days. So you may not have a day with your spouse for years :D

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#379

Post by mantas »

legitster wrote: post #156
FpUser wrote: post #97

>"The Soviet Union's approach to paid time off (PTO) was unique, as it not only provided workers with time off but also determined how they spent it" Utter bullshit. I was able to travel to every part of USSR (except of course restricted areas and abroad) during my vacation time without any problems. USSR had gobbles of big problems and general lack of freedom but vacations were not part. As a matter of fact I spent…

I think there is not a distinction being made between "time-off" and "vacation" - the author seems to be focused entirely on travel destinations and resorts.

There was no distinction between time-off and vacation in USSR either.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#380

Post by mantas »

pierat wrote: post #263
The_Colonel wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, your suggestion that the desire for more time off must be caused by some mental problem is pretty rude. I also don't understand why is it such a mystery that people might want to pursue other interests than just work and that requires time off work. Here in Europe, 20+10 is the bare minimum, with most people getting more and still striving for more.

My current job, with 20 days PTO plus federal holidays is what I get per year. If I get sick, it comes out of the 20 day pool. If I want a vacation, comes out of the 20 day pool. At least, thankfully, I'm a remote worker, so I won't be infecting the whole office. But I still have 'come to work' sick this year. There are more than a few obnoxious cold bugs going around. And still, COVID. And from what I understand, mo…

> And from what I understand, most European Union countries get unlimited sick leave, and 4-6 weeks of vacation both.

Just a side note, but in most countries sick leave requires a doctor-signed papers. Even for a day. Although sometimes companies give call-in-is-fine days as a perk. There're a lot of caveats around pay during that period. In most cases employer pays full salary for first week or so. Later it's on state and pay may be reduced. E.g. 80% of one's salary.

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