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Vacations in the Soviet Union

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Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#281

Post by drdaeman »

ahelwer wrote: post #7
EarthIsHome wrote: post #2

Happy May Day! Here's a Twitter thread [0] that has excerpts/paraphrases from an old Soviet pamphlet called "How Soviet Workers Spend Their Leisure." (rolled up version [1]) You can find a scanned version of the pamphlet here [2]. There were many of these pamphlets published. One day I will scan them and post them. There was one on Waterways & Transport in the USSR, one about Soviet theater, one about the food indust…

Prolonged periods of time spent without obligation to work for pay is one of the greatest luxuries you can have in this life. People shouldn't have to wait until retirement to enjoy it. Sabbatical, basically, although even sabbatical often comes with obligations for self-improvement serving the company offering it. A lot of discourse on working hours revolves around decreasing the hours worked per week. I would also…

Just a quick reminder that while paid time off was mandatory, working was also mandatory in the Soviet Union. One couldn’t just go on a sabbatical, that’d be a crime there.

> Those who refused to work, study or serve in another way risked being criminally charged with social parasitism (Russian: тунеядство)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_parasitism_(offense)

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#282

Post by medvezhenok »

bequanna wrote: post #208
medvezhenok wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sort of. I think it's more nuanced than that. Communism rebalances the relative worth of people in society. I.e. my grandfather, an engineer, earned less than a factory worker. An average or passing artist could earn a decent living in the Soviet Union, compared to having scraps today (in relative terms). I notice this calculus as I have an artistic career and a software career. I would like to pursue the artistic ca…

Right, this is the kind of seductive but ultimately unrealistic kind of thinking that ropes in the vulnerable. Shouldn't people be incentivized to pursue work that they are good at, enjoy AND which society actually demands? If good art is rare and in higher demand, good artists will be able to demand higher pay. If good art is in high supply because many people prefer the artist lifestyle, artists will not be able to…

Sort of, but not really. There is a prisoner's dilemma here. People would like [better public transit, more art, you name it], but what's actually produced (and rewarded) doesn't completely overlap with what people want. It overlaps mainly with what _rich_ people want, which is different.

The reason investment bankers are paid well is that they make money _for rich people_. If you look at any professions, the closer you are to the money source and to the rich, the more you make.

Rich people want to stay rich in relative terms, not in absolute terms - something people always forget (because that makes them able to command other people's time and make other people "dance" for them, not buy gadgets or luxury goods which don't matter anyway).

I.e. I would argue that a lot of things that command a high income in the U.S. are actually net-negative for society overall (if we look at the value not in $ value, but in human value). Extracting monopolistic rents, for example. Slumlording. Speculating in Bitcoin. The list is long if you want to really make it.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#283

Post by MSFT_Edging »

stcroixx wrote: post #244
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not difficult to visit China (except that you'll probably have to apply for a visa, but Chinese people have to do that to visit Western countries too). You won't experience much about the government while there. Police aren't really that present in public. Border control is like any other country. The only issue you're likely to run into is the Great Firewall, for which you can just install a VPN before arriving…

Is it allowed for foreigners to travel to where the forced labor re-education camps are? I’d assumed it was not.

> XINJIANG, China (AP) — The razor wire that once ringed public buildings in China’s far northwestern Xinjiang region is nearly all gone.

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-lifestyle-ch...

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#284

Post by vorpalhex »

zvmaz wrote: post #92
mym1990 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I am not from the west. Now I think I understand why I get downvoted.

Don't pay too much attention to scores on HN, they mean very little. Usually over 24 hours or so things will normalize anyways.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#285

Post by mannerheim »

atdrummond wrote: post #127
samstave wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is so much amazing beauty in the world, including the largest country on the planet, Russia - and then especially areas in China, which I would LOVE to visit, but the governments of each country kinda suck, so its not a place I'll likely go (imagine mtn biking through some of the amazing landscapes of either) With that said, I'd love to hear Lex Fridman's opinion on all of this.

I encourage you (barring safety concerns) to travel to countries whose governments are considered illiberal. Some of my most enlightening trips were to DPRK, Russia, China, Turkmenistan, Brunei. You learn a lot about how the western media tends to exaggerate for political ends.

Funny, I have been to China many times visiting family and have never felt that western media has been particularly unfair in its portrayal.

I would rather not ever go back while Xi is still in power if I can help it (unfortunately I may have to one or two more times for familial obligations) and would recommend against going to anyone on the fence. Don't get Brittney Griner'd.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#286

Post by sokoloff »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #211
yamtaddle wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nb the described plan is luxurious by US standards.

I have ~ 15y of experience and I have a grand total of 3 weeks PTO. My father, at my age had 5 whole weeks and doesn't understand why I don't take big trips more. Despite the trend in 'unlimited vacation', I feel it's only getting worse.

Unlimited vacation has the greatest negative spread between "how it sounds" and "how it actually works". It's incredibly employee unfriendly.

As a leader, I will fight against it every time it gets proposed.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#287

Post by medvezhenok »

bequanna wrote: post #218
medvezhenok wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sort of. I think it's more nuanced than that. Communism rebalances the relative worth of people in society. I.e. my grandfather, an engineer, earned less than a factory worker. An average or passing artist could earn a decent living in the Soviet Union, compared to having scraps today (in relative terms). I notice this calculus as I have an artistic career and a software career. I would like to pursue the artistic ca…

> not because the work is actually worth less in some sense. It depends on how you define value. If you mean value in terms of how much money you receive, you actually need other people to agree that what you're doing is worthwhile. If you only care about the feelings that YOU get from doing the work (which is totally OK) your work is still valuable, but don't expect others to provide you value in the form of money w…

You're not paying for my software engineering either, at least not directly. In fact, you don't have a choice about it. It's included in the markup of the products you purchase - in all of them.

In fact, if you had a choice, if we sold software services the way we sell art today, software salaries would go way down (in fact, someone could increase revenues for a company by making it impossible for you to unsubscribe. If that's not anti-value, I don't know what is. In fact, it's so bad that we even have to pass laws to outlaw it). Same for medicine and many other things - the financialization and obscurity of the actual source of the money is part of what allows this whole thing to continue.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#288

Post by int_19h »

vondur wrote: post #39
EarthIsHome wrote: post #2

Happy May Day! Here's a Twitter thread [0] that has excerpts/paraphrases from an old Soviet pamphlet called "How Soviet Workers Spend Their Leisure." (rolled up version [1]) You can find a scanned version of the pamphlet here [2]. There were many of these pamphlets published. One day I will scan them and post them. There was one on Waterways & Transport in the USSR, one about Soviet theater, one about the food indust…

Did the Soviet government actually follow the Constitution of The USSR? I believe it also mentioned freedom of expression, freedom of religion and freedom of assembly, all of which seemed to be ignored.

It wasn't followed, of course. Indeed, the early dissident movement in 1960s started with demands for the government to actually follow the constitution, and then kinda evolved from there. But also, as usual with constitutions, the wording in many cases is vague enough to allow for some ... creative interpretations.

In preparation for the 1980 Olympics, Soviets published a pamphlet titled "USSR: 100 questions and answers", meant primarily for Soviet citizens as an agitprop manual - basically a list of precanned answers to the most common questions that Western tourists were expected to ask. It is a hilarious read, but also very informative if you want to know how it was all sold in official propaganda.

https://sovtime.ru/answers

(So far as I know, it's only available in Russian, but automated translation is good enough these days.)

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#289

Post by legitster »

CrackerNews wrote: post #240
legitster wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can at least appreciate someone who advocates for non-Marxist or Leninist forms of communism or just socialism in general. But there has been a remarkable rise of young people who now defend Leninist communism! I think for a lot of people, it's intellectual junk food. A Marxist revolution has a low risk of actually happening in the modern world. And rather than educating yourself on policy and working on advocacy,…

It's the "intellectual junk food" behind the USSR and China turning from backwards peasant conditions to rival global powers. Orthodox Marxist theory States that society must be advanced enough to reach a socialist phase. The nature of the class-based Hegelian dialectics that leads to communism is nebulous and unclear IMO, but I interpret it as something like the fall of feudalism.

USSR certainly industrialized past the levels of serfdom, but individuals were clearly still held back from their full economic potential. It wasn't until AFTER they left the USSR that most of the former Soviet states actually reached modern standards of living. There's nothing to say the revolution actually benefited the average person in Russia more than the natural dissemination of coal power would have.

China only began thriving after they abandoned Marxist-flavored communism and integrated markets into their government.

Well, it's not just unclear to you. Even if you buy into some of Marx's more coherent ideas, it's such a bonkers idea to form a government with the expressed intent of achieving some sort of vague Hegelian state as outlined by some untestable arguments described in an unfinished work of political critiques. Das Kapital is not exactly a useful guide for creating actual policy.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#290

Post by iudqnolq »

MSFT_Edging wrote: post #279
iudqnolq wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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If you ask Chinese people outside of China, they also really don't care. They know what happened, its like the Kent State shooting for them. The west severely exaggerates every bad thing that happens over there then pretends like every misstep is solved with execution. Sure there's censorship but its exaggerated to a level of fiction in the west, like a movie that's "based on real events". More than likely if you ask…

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