Vacations in the Soviet Union • Hacker News Board

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#231

Post by adamsb6 » Mon, May 01, 2023, 6:34 PM UTC

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #117

samstave wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is so much amazing beauty in the world, including the largest country on the planet, Russia - and then especially areas in China, which I would LOVE to visit, but the governments of each country kinda suck, so its not a place I'll likely go (imagine mtn biking through some of the amazing landscapes of either) With that said, I'd love to hear Lex Fridman's opinion on all of this.

It's not difficult to visit China (except that you'll probably have to apply for a visa, but Chinese people have to do that to visit Western countries too). You won't experience much about the government while there. Police aren't really that present in public. Border control is like any other country. The only issue you're likely to run into is the Great Firewall, for which you can just install a VPN before arriving…

If you bring your own cell data plan you won't even need to futz with VPN. Cell data tunnels back to the carrier and the Great Firewall doesn't block anything.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#232

Post by OkayPhysicist » Mon, May 01, 2023, 6:37 PM UTC

pierat wrote: post #49

Sigh, that's not always easy with many of the people here with "unlimited PTO" without guaranteed minimums. Most of the unlimited clauses are based on manager approval. The base HR justification for unlimited PTO is to not have to pay out unused PTO when they leave. Naturally, it sounds good on face, but leads to less PTO taken due to inherent worries of "how much is too much", lack of manager approval, and the like.…

'unlimited' PTO should only ever be offered with a required minimum number of days. If that means my boss has to say "Go home for the last 2/3 weeks of December, you can't work any more this year", that's fine.

Personally, I'm in a position where I'm perfectly happy with my current company's offer: I get a relatively small (2 weeks) amount of non-sicktime PTO, but I'm more or less free to take as much unpaid time as I want. Which in a field as well-paying as software development, is absolutely fine with me. Even better would be a formal pool of UPTO, which doesn't need any negotiation at all, but luckily my boss is accommodating.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#233

Post by obscurette » Mon, May 01, 2023, 6:38 PM UTC

I lived half of my life in Soviet Union and would say that this article is simplification with sources more from instate propaganda than from reality. The article basically describes russian upper middle class (yes, there were classes within soviet society) after WWII. Most of people couldn't even dream about Sochi. Soviet Union was huge and differences between regions, classes, nationalities etc were very much there. The life of intelligence in Moscow was very different from the life of intelligence in Baltic republics or the life of farmer in Central-Asia republics etc. Even in seventies it was common that people in many regions weren't even allowed to move from their hometown or village.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#234

Post by CrackerNews » Mon, May 01, 2023, 6:40 PM UTC

0xDEF wrote: post #38

It's fascinating how the ideology of Marxism–Leninism (Communism) today is more popular than ever among young people in former capitalist heartlands like the US, Canada and UK. A simple European-style welfare state with universal healthcare is all you need to satisfy 90% of people but the elites in the US and the UK refuse to provide that.

At this point it's about a desire for rational economic planning versus a capitalist system that they view as increasingly incapable of addressing broader 21st century problems such as climate change.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#235

Post by greenie_beans » Mon, May 01, 2023, 6:42 PM UTC

samstave wrote: post #44

danielodievich wrote: post #4

Growing up in USSR, my mother would take us for a summer in some mountains/vacation destination and work there as a guide. One time in Kandalaksha gulf in White Sea near Murmansk she was a wilderness guide for a few rounds of tourists from elsewhere in Soviet Union for a 8 day hiking in mountains/sailing on the White Sea trip. We had such wide range of people - from experienced outdoors people to the elderly pensione…

There is so much amazing beauty in the world, including the largest country on the planet, Russia - and then especially areas in China, which I would LOVE to visit, but the governments of each country kinda suck, so its not a place I'll likely go (imagine mtn biking through some of the amazing landscapes of either) With that said, I'd love to hear Lex Fridman's opinion on all of this.

> I'd love to hear Lex Fridman's opinion on all of this

why?

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#236

Post by bitL » Mon, May 01, 2023, 6:42 PM UTC

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #117

samstave wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is so much amazing beauty in the world, including the largest country on the planet, Russia - and then especially areas in China, which I would LOVE to visit, but the governments of each country kinda suck, so its not a place I'll likely go (imagine mtn biking through some of the amazing landscapes of either) With that said, I'd love to hear Lex Fridman's opinion on all of this.

It's not difficult to visit China (except that you'll probably have to apply for a visa, but Chinese people have to do that to visit Western countries too). You won't experience much about the government while there. Police aren't really that present in public. Border control is like any other country. The only issue you're likely to run into is the Great Firewall, for which you can just install a VPN before arriving…

I still can't forget how the immigration tried to disassemble my camera lens in Shanghai (not just remove them from the camera, but also tear them down), so visiting China might lead to some unexpected bad impressions. Also being barely able to see sun in Beijing due to fog/smog everywhere when arriving from pristine New Zealand looked very unwelcoming.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#237

Post by gjulianm » Mon, May 01, 2023, 6:46 PM UTC

catiopatio wrote: post #116

boveus wrote: post #79

>It encouraged workers to vacation with groups of relative strangers as opposed to their friends and families. This can actually work out well. I experienced something similar in the US while on vacation. I was traveling with someone from Glenwood Springs, CO to Denver, CO via Amtrak. We went to the dining car for lunch an since there were two of us and space is at a premium, the Amtrak policy was to seat us with one…

Folks are welcome to opt-in to those sorts of experiences, but as an absolute introvert, I can’t imagine a less pleasant vacation. This would be the antithesis of a vacation.

Agreed. For some people, conversation takes energy. Being in a group takes energy. A vacation where you're out with complete strangers, in a group where you can't really do whatever you like and have to follow and compromise and discuss things, sounds like hell. I'd have to take a vacation from that.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#238

Post by OkayPhysicist » Mon, May 01, 2023, 6:46 PM UTC

kfrzcode wrote: post #157

The_Colonel wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, your suggestion that the desire for more time off must be caused by some mental problem is pretty rude. I also don't understand why is it such a mystery that people might want to pursue other interests than just work and that requires time off work. Here in Europe, 20+10 is the bare minimum, with most people getting more and still striving for more.

I'll concede rudeness as it's perceptive and not intrinsic in this case; I apologize for the timbre of my approach. My stance is more of one rooted in individualism and self-advocation, i.e. if you're dedicated to a job that's considered a full time commitment, that's the social construct. We're not in a society post-labor, idealistic techtopia yet, and that transition if it occurs will be painful and bloated. The re…

The employer/employee relationship is a business transaction: I pay them in labor, they pay me in cash. PTO is just me adjusting the amount of labor provided.

Imagine I walk into a spice stall and say: "I'd like to buy a pound of cinnamon, please." The seller might reply "Sure, that'll be $20 dollars". But I don't have $20. I have $10. So maybe I counter "Hmmm, best I can do is $10 dollars". The seller could then counter offer "I'll sell you half a pound for $10", and then we could both shake hands and walk off happy.

Replace cinnamon with labor, and that's a job negotiation. An employer, to satisfy me into selling my labor, has basically two levers: They can pay me more, or have me work less for the same pay. "Have me work less" is PTO.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#239

Post by quacked » Mon, May 01, 2023, 6:47 PM UTC

DubiousPusher wrote: post #62

This is great. I've been interested in understanding how the Soviet economy worked for a long time. I've found only a handful of articles like this one. Unless you're willing to delve into hardcore economic academic papers (I am not) it's hard to get an actual informed perspective. Most Googling around will basically return you the rote response that it basically didn't work. Which, despite the many issues with the S…

> Which, despite the many issues with the Soviet economy, is obviously not true.

The first thing I hear from any ex-Soviet who grew up in the USSR is how their lives were impacted by the constant shortages and censorship of issues with the supply chain. There's a classic joke from the USSR that goes:

"Comrade, aren't you excited for when the USA finally falls?"

"No, who will we buy our grain from?"

Another one:

"Isn't it true that the USA is rotting from within?"

"Yes, but what a smell!"

Millions of people in the USSR starved to death, and their consumer tech was among the most unreliable and poorly-made available internationally. This despite Soviet mathematicians and engineers being among the finest and hardest-working on the planet. They could only just overcome the constraints that the centrally-governed economy placed on them. The only notable exception is military hardware, which was actually funded.

What do you mean "it's obviously not true [that the Soviet economy didn't work]"?

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#240

Post by CrackerNews » Mon, May 01, 2023, 6:47 PM UTC

legitster wrote: post #185

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #103

There are a bunch of zoomers out there who un-ironically claim Communism is the ideal way of life. I've worked with some of them. I still can't fathom what's going on in their brains.

I can at least appreciate someone who advocates for non-Marxist or Leninist forms of communism or just socialism in general. But there has been a remarkable rise of young people who now defend Leninist communism! I think for a lot of people, it's intellectual junk food. A Marxist revolution has a low risk of actually happening in the modern world. And rather than educating yourself on policy and working on advocacy,…

It's the "intellectual junk food" behind the USSR and China turning from backwards peasant conditions to rival global powers. Orthodox Marxist theory States that society must be advanced enough to reach a socialist phase. The nature of the class-based Hegelian dialectics that leads to communism is nebulous and unclear IMO, but I interpret it as something like the fall of feudalism.